Friday, August 04, 2006

Mr. Highlander -updated

I don’t want to sound callous, but I’m sure you’ve all had an overdose of war on the blogs. So I thought that it was time to tackle some other topic, we can revert to the Middle East – yes I have more controversy – in a few days time how about that ?

I’ve been sent many emails and forwarded quizzes asking me about my ideal man ;) , and how come there is no Mr. Highlander – along with some offers to fill that space he he he… Hmm it seems you guys are all curious about my taste eh ? By the way the tests and memes sent by the ladies where fun to do also. I swear I did them all! Oh and I promise I won’t divulge who asked me what …..

I had posted in February 2005 my favourite ‘purely physical’ attractive men, and then mentioned that my choice would be influenced by ‘intelligence, wit, education, culture , love etc...’.

So if anyone is matchmaking here is my partial non-comprehensive list :)

(1) Spirituality –faith

This is the most important characteristic , because the man who is confident about his spirituality and has faith in God will be at peace with himself and the world. He will harbour no hate and no suspicion towards other humans and he will therefore do his best to uphold human values for everybody. Which eventually translates into respect and love for his spouse – I would feel safe in the notion that it is okay for me to be human and imperfect, and that I would still be cared for. I guess what I’m looking for is the beauty of the soul .

(2)Extensive culture

My man has to be well rounded in his general culture or at least willing to learn more, degrees are not a proof of refinement and culture they are merely a tool and a guide. The principal part is the ambition to accumulate knowledge about all sorts of interesting topics and the will to share it.


(3)Conversation

The extensive culture mentioned above would result into wonderful conversation and debating skill and life would never be boring especially when we get older and the physical passion gets less urgent;) Plus a great conversation will make him sooooooooo charming.
We should be able to talk about anything with no taboos and no fear.


(4)Keeping promises /word

Keeping my word is a characteristic that was drilled into me since childhood. I was literally told “your word should never fall to the ground”. That is -you should always respect your word and keep your promises. I have attempted to live by this decree for as long as I can remember even if it was at the expense of my own interest. That is why I will have no mercy if potential Mr.Highlander proves he cannot keep his word, whether by malice or negligence. There are no excuses, except for death or a fatal accident – for everything else there is the phone or email or any other means of communication. Not keeping his word means I don’t count as a human being, lover, friend, partner whatever i.e. I’m dispensable and not to be respected . If you keep your word against all odds you will be my hero.

(5)Tenderness & gallantry etc..

A tender guy will disarm me – I would be putty in his hands. In this age of ‘equality’ of the sexes, I am not ashamed to say a gallant real gentleman would score better in my eyes.
He would be available no matter how busy ( or find a way to make it OK that he is not).Of course I 'm not selfish and I do understand when someone is busy yet certain people have that certain je ne sais quoi , amazingly they know what to say and what to do at the right moment. Maybe they are just more finely attuned than the other mere mortals ;) .

(6)Hard working and smart

Intelligence is a prerequisite, dumb guys please abstain. Note that this does not include all intelligent men , I'm sure you've heard of emotional intelligence - so a high quotient in that is definetely a plus, because he would be attentive to my wants and needs and safety as I would damn ( oops excuse the profanity) sure be doing that all along ( comes with the territory lol ).
He should be willing to work hard to achieve his dreams and I would be supportive but he should be supportive in helping me achieve mine. He would be able to teach me something I don't know and humble enough to want to learn from me as well.

(7)Sharing

If we’re gonna share intimacy and conversation then it is only fair to share household responsibility and raising kids i.e.and equitable division of labour. The better we share the more we have time to be together.

(8)Physical

Good hygiene and grooming is a given , if you’re willing to take care of your physical shape I will take care of mine too. If you have a great butt and legs ( or lips ) don’t be shy about it . Plus it’s much more attractive to go to bed with Brad Pitt ( he looks good even in a skirt ) than with the Michelin guy ( Bibendum for my American readers ) !
Although I have no ethnic or racial preferences, I find myself programmed to be attracted to a certain type more than the other, but as I said if you fit all the criteria , then beauty becomes in the eye of the beholder.

(9)Fun and adventurous

Beach , library, playground, parks, mountains foreign countries, dancing, chess, monopoly or just playing hide and seek in the sitting room with the kids. It takes a special guy to want to do these things.


Well that was my wish list and not necessarily in order of preference . So far only a couple of men have partially fulfilled the criteria- either I’m chasing windmills or real men have gone into hiding . ..lol

Hope you enjoyed that and please share with me YOUR wish lists ladies and gentlemen ..... I don't discriminate so if you are gay or bi you can be anonymous and tell about your ideal second half ;)

UPDATE 10-8-06

Well some of your comments have uncovered some other characteristics :)

- I like the modern but macho man ( hand's on guy as someone said below)
- An ability to make decisions is a plus
- if he compromises I will too.

'tis not perfection I seek as that is a Godly attribute , 'tis who with his imperfections would still be perfect for me. Not looking for that prince on the white horse I guess but forr the one who will bring the glass slipper that fits ;)

33 comments:

ChrisinMB said...

That's a pretty good list; I especially like the "Extensive Culture" portion.

"...degrees are not a proof of refinement and culture they are merely a tool and a guide. The principal part is the ambition to accumulate knowledge about all sorts of interesting topics and the will to share it. "

EXACTLY!
This also applies to one's intelligence & "practical" education as well.
What's more significant; working 3 or 4 years to get a degree when you in your 20's or spending a lifetime actively educating one's self? I've run into many so called educated people who have no desire to learn anything once out of school, no passion for learning or life. Their idea of learning something new only involves attending a course or class that contributes towards some formal certification or job opportunity.

Hey, what about a practical "hands on" type of guy?!?
Many women, that I know at least, really appreciate a guy who can handle everything from fixing a leaky toilet & tuning up the car to building a new home. In other words, the sort of man who if abandoned in the wilderness would survive for more than one day, hands on practical. It's not so much a convenience issue but more of an indication of someone's versatility. Almost a modern equivalent to the macho "hunter & gatherer" male character traits sought after in the past.

Anyhow, sorry for being long winded.
Been lurking for awhile. Thought I'd speak up for once.

Desert Rose said...

Thanks for changing the topic.
Now you have mentioned what qualities you want your ideal man to have, which is a pretty long list Highlander !! Nothing personal .
Anyway what about young men and what they look for in their future ideal women ??I'm wondering how long the list will be??!!!
Why has no-one thought about having a match -making blog ??!!

Highlander said...

Redenclave sweetie:) you are very pretty we saw your photos on your blog ...as for your age he he he we can make an educated guess too .I look forward to your Mr.Right input.Thank you for the compliments - the 'intelligent , mature' part is my favourite. You would be surprised at what I look like lol, Soraya the Syrian bloggersknows, so does Iraqispirit and few others ( you know who you are ;) ). But I did not think my looks should be an important item on this blog - so I never emphasized them .However in marriage ? yes they would be a great bonus lol.Maybe when I get married I'll make a blog with my photo and that of hubby and the kids :)

You are welcome I love your blog it just takes so long to download for me ...and I've already met some bloggers and look forward to meeting more, so yay for meeting you in Libya in 2008 !


Hi Chris and welcome to my blog, glad you decided to come out of the closet and comment.

Hmmm yes the 'hands on guy' would be a plus too, you have reminded me that I want my man to know how to pitch a tent and gather food when we go camping and to survive in the wild...ok how do you get the office types to get these skills ;) or should I choose someone who has done his military service ? or a DIY course ?

Redneck :) is that what I think it is ?

Hi Trabilsia , you are welcome , I don't know what young men want but I know what many Libyan men want and found it disapointing , hence my long list ... I am not a trophy doll to be hung on his arm , or asked to refrain from some activity because of his insecurities :( .... but I have not lost hope , finally the Libyan male bloggers are showing me that things can be different.

Matchmaking blog eh ? we've been talking about it Craig, NBA and I as NBA wants to marry an Arab hottie :)

LW I like Metallica do I qualify :)

غازي القبلاوي Ghazi Gheblawi said...

this is really a very interesting subject, since I was 18 y.o I had many lists for my dream girl, I kept changing them each year, now that I am 30, it can either become more complicated or easier, it all depends on me getting fed up with the company of myself, here is a brief list:
1. Moral values are important for me more than being religious.
2. Intelligence is very important, as I can't stand dumbness, either it was from a man or a women; I used to be more tolerant but not anymore.
3. Wide cultural knowledge is important, I like a girl who challenges me in her knowledge, especially in reading, I am book worm and I despise people who don't read.
4. personality: I get intimidated by a strong independent women, I don't want to get stuck with some body who wants me to become her father, or get clumsy in doing simple tasks, I need a partner not a dish washer or children factory.
5. Looks: it comes after all this, but its above all the first gate to see what’s inside a person, its not the matter of being good looking but maintaining that after marriage, some think that its not important after that, I don't want to wake up one day to find myself hooked up with what looks like Alien.
6. She believes in me and in my work, as I have many carers and interests I would like her to believe and support what I do, especially the cultural and literary ones.
7. It would be great, if she speaks her own mind, she has her opinion on life, can challenge me in conversations, not in the confrontational negative sense, but in a positive active way.

Sorry for the long comment, I just got carried away. Thanks

Anonymous said...

Curt from Houston says:

Highlander, While all of these traits are admirable and worth perusing, have you ever given consideration to the aspect of a man who will physically put himself between you and your children and harms way?

Highlander said...

Hi Ghazi :) I like your list no it's not too long I wish the other guys would speak their mind as well. Reading you and a few other male Libyan bloggers I am gaining some hope that all is not lost for Libyan men .Thank you.By the way have you found anyone with these characteristics ;)

Curt from Houston : Hi Curt , I know you read my blog but I wish you would comment more often. Still I'm glad to see you today.

You ask "have you ever given consideration to the aspect of a man who will physically put himself between you and your children and harms way? "

Yes- I thought that would be a given as I would do the same.
You see Curt, if he is going to be patient with me and with my imperfectness and and eccentricities and is willing to humour me on adventure trips, share the houselhold chores and care about me , then I am sure he will defend me and our kid(s) with his life gladly. Gosh that makes me sound like a hopeless romantic ...what do you think ?

غازي القبلاوي Ghazi Gheblawi said...

Thanks Highlander for commenting, as for finding a person with these criteria, once a long time a go I thought I found her, but things were not possible, as I say sometimes to myself when I am carried away with my emotions, if time was different and the place was different, my life would've been different too. Guess I will need to wait more to find my other better half.

Modern Pharaoh said...

Perfect, I'm your man...lol
http://modernpharaoh.blogspot.com/

programmer craig said...

I got disqualified by LibyanWarrior and the Palestinian redneck!? You guys just don't like fundamentalist jewish christian crackers, do you? :O

NBA, good comment... I don't agree with you about the most "faithful" being the least peaceful, though. A spirutually healthy person will be peaceful and giving by nature. Those devout members of religion_x that you and I seem to have sucha problem with are not spirutually healthy, which I think means that eitehr their religion is flawed or their practice of it is. Or both :)

Anyway, glad to see you on to a more interesting topic than the mideast crise, Highlander! I'll try to comment more later on with a wish list of my own I guess :)

Maya M said...

Highlander, remember that you asked me what I think about you marrying a Westerner? Let me answer now: I don't think this would be a very good idea. First, as I wrote before, I think huge cultural differences are likely to make a marriage less stable (the same in fact is true for any huge difference, be it in age, educational degree or material status). Of course there are exceptions and there is no recipe for a happy marriage anyway, but this is the rule.
Second, current Western culture is characterized by secularism and constant TV brainwashing. This leads to a spiritual crisis, because too many people fill the gap left after decline of faith with crap from TV ads and shows. The result: a hedonistic (decadent, as Islamists call it) culture which values "success" (measured entirely in money and position in society) and pleasure. The wish to extort from life as much as possible while contributing as little as possible evolved from a sin to an aspect of natural human egoism to normal and now to a kind of moral rule (people not living this way are often regarded as fools and outsiders). Maternal instinct saves women from the extremes of this trend, but many men reach the end of the road. Because marriage is all about duty, they of course are very reluctant to marry. But even if they do, their uncontrolled and proud egoism won't let them become good husbands and fathers. Of course not all Western men have this defect, but for a woman not grown inside Western culture it would be more difficult to detect it in time or to mount effective counter-action.
Third, prejudice can interfere. Even if the man himself doesn't hold it, he may be influenced by his friends or relations (men often are too susceptible to outside pressure). Egyptian-Canadian Jem (she moved her blog, I don't know its present URL) once wrote that she had a Catholic boyfriend but his parents messed and separated the couple. They couldn't see in Jem the good things their son saw, because she was from another religion and her mind, although sharp, was "tainted with the irreversible mark of otherness".
In fact, no Westerner can qualify to become Mr. Highlander, because you reject atheists right from the beginning (poor Non-blogging!), and believing Christians and Jews would refuse to convert to Islam. I don't know where it's written that Muslim women may not marry non-Muslim men, e.g. Leilouta regards herself as a Muslim but has married a non-Muslim.
Anyway, I think that regardless of lists of requirements, you will recognize the man when you see him.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Highlander for this bit of fresh air! And Non-Blogging you Euro-softie! Thanks for noticing my absence from that war thread. I was sailing for a week and completely disconnected from the net. Pretty healthy sometimes I daresay.

One thing strikes me as I read these comments. Are all of us single? OK OK, perhaps not all. But it seems that a – forgive me now - disproportionate majority of us are single. Scary…




Maya has a point, and important too, but I am not so sure that cultural differences are an absolute no-no. They may be a little bit risky, in both of the ways that she mentions. But if you feel certain about a person, if every instinct tells you this is the one, then cultural differences could actually strengthen a relationship. Because in such a relationship you start off by weathering out a storm. And hardships, normally, glue you together.

As for peer pressure, if you have to chose between intolerant friends and a tolerant spouse, something’s gotta give. And family pressure, yes tolerant families are surely a great help.

”The wish to extort from life as much as possible while contributing as little as possible evolved from a sin to an aspect of natural human egoism to normal and now to a kind of moral rule (people not living this way are often regarded as fools and outsiders).”

I sadly agree, in the Western World many people live this way. (And I am happy that some do not!) And it is sad to see that this sort of “culture” is even more prominent in the recently freed Eastern Europe. I do not know about Bulgaria but we can look at Russia, Hungary or Romania where this newly won freedom has led to a blatant material egoism. Too bad they didn’t take the other road while they had the choice.

I also have to agree with Non-Blogging. Just because I do not subscribe to any religion in any book does not make me an atheist! I do believe in divinity. I also believe that the exact form of this divinity is beyond human comprehension, thus giving it a name is wrong. Western society is highly secularized but I see a lot of people holding private spiritual beliefs without going to any church.

Desert Rose said...

When we list what we would like Mr./Miss Right to be , our expectations of him /her, we forget about fate and sometimes even the so called list becomes nonsense !!!nothing personal mind you )

Highlander said...

7mada what happened to your blog? why is it inaccessible :(

Anonymous said...

LybianWarrior rocking out:

http://www.pinvillage.com/albums/album47/Copenhagen_Viking_Playing_Guitar.thumb.jpg

Highlander said...

Ghazi :) I had a look at your blog , you really are a nice person ( and handsome as well ) , so I'm sure you will find the person you are looking for one day and that would either fit all the criteria or whom you would love so much that you would change your criteria for her :) . Inshallah

NBA ;) I'm glad you are back commenting we missed you ( well I missed you too he he he) , now if Craig can come backs as well - paging programmer_ Craig ! anyone seen him ?
Yes NBA enjoy the current post as the other style is coming back with a vengence ...
In response to your comment I wanted to remind that this list is basically a reply to question sent by many of you in my emails - so maybe those who have not commented have found the answers they were looking for ;)
Plus my ideal characteristics may not be ideal right >? just personal taste lol
Of course I'm willing to compromise if the guy is worth it and compromises too ...
So I'd like to disagree these are not demands just preferences , things that turn me on let's say , so you won't read what I have to offer because I'm not advertising myself . If I wanted to do that I only have to put a photo ( how modest eh ) and you would see the profile views double in 24 hrs ( just joking ).
Talking of job applications when I was in high school I told my friends that my suitors have to come with they file and CV ( just like a job application) so that I could judge their accomplishments lol I would reciproquate as well. No wonder they thought I was crazy . I think I was seriously considering that because some guy had lied to me. ...
NBA you qualify as a hands on guy yes ;)

As for the Libyan men they will boast pitching tents in the desert at the opposite end of the temperature scale


Hi Modern Pharaoh , NBA above says he is not proposing , but you seem to do so :) .. welcome to my blog . It's your first time here eh ? You certainly fill some of the criteria ....( hmmm I'm thinking )

Programmer _Craig , we are still waiting for your list my friend.
I agree with this statement from you "A spirutually healthy person will be peaceful and giving by nature. "
I also agree with the first part of this statement : "Those devout members of religion_x that you and I seem to have sucha problem with are not spirutually healthy, which I think means that eitehr their religion is flawed or their practice of it is. Or both :)" , but beg to differ on the second part, only their practice of the religion is flawed Craig don't even let anyone convince you of anything else. God is perfection !


Maya , I'm glad you commented here too, you always have a personal touch
This post is not about me marrying a Westener, it's about the readers who were curious of what I liked hoped and dreamt of in a man and I tried to answer their very specific questions mind you .
Who said the spiritualism I am seeking is limited to only one religion ?
It is interesting what you say about the WEst but you do paint a bleak picture and I've seen a better one :)

Jem's in-laws are racist!

Who said the spiritualism I am seeking is limited to only one religion ? who said anything about converting ? But I do appreciate your explanation that if the guy I marry fits all these criteria and is Western the relationship in your opinion is doomed :).....I hope that is not the case though :)

NBA and Craig - you have not been disqualified don't worry ... LW you are too young for sure althoug you are such fun.

Adam nice to see you here ....welcome back to the blogs
- yeah a lot of us are single ...
"But if you feel certain about a person, if every instinct tells you this is the one, then cultural differences could actually strengthen a relationship. Because in such a relationship you start off by weathering out a storm. And hardships, normally, glue you together." - agree 100%

"I do believe in divinity. I also believe that the exact form of this divinity is beyond human comprehension, thus giving it a name is wrong. Western society is highly secularized but I see a lot of people holding private spiritual beliefs without going to any church."

That makes you spiritual in my book.

Redenclave Sweetie , I reall hope you have that nice man - you deserve the best !

Trabilsia- I believe in nasseeb too my dear :)

hi 7mada thanks for the link, and as for blogging - you don't have to keep to a certain schedule, just do what you want yabni it's YOUR blog and it was a place where I could ask about you :( now I don't have that - and we miss you.

Tommy :) where is your list ?

LW if only you can just stop using the F word , otherwise you are perfect ya man !

I am curious to see Schlemazl's list too...

Anonymous said...

Ho Ho All You Love Birds!

NB the monger of soft: you have so cleverly avoided describing your perfect woman. As have I too! I thought I would change that here & now.

Craig, missed by many here, as well as at Sandmonkey’s place. Perhaps a case of acute blogospheric overdose? I certainly know that feeling….

My dream woman? As gorgeous as JayLo and as humble as Mother Theresa. Hmm, wonder why I am single!

OK when I wake up: Intelligent, loving, and humorous, sure sure we all want that!
Highlander mentions conversation. I think that language is pretty important. I mean English is the third language for more than a few of us here but still we have a pretty decent command of it. It is important that I have a common language which I can share with my woman. A language where subtle nuances and jokes are not lost.

And then there is another quality that I am searching for. It is difficult to describe. It includes among other things gentleness, humor, spirituality, wisdom (quite different from intelligence). I see all these qualities as different aspects of, one thing, one attitude to life.

* * *

BTW, for those who care: my own hibernating little blog, which is more like a travel journal, has had a recent little revival. Keep watching this space:

http://adam1blog.blogspot.com/

Maya M said...

Non-Blogging, let me first apologize for labeling you as an atheist - you mentioned once that most Finnish don't really believe but write in forms "Christian" because it sounds better that "Atheist", so I extrapolated this to you.
My list of demands was: to be honest, responsible, caring, good professional (you wouldn't believe how many men seek a partner while being unemployed) and wishing to live in Bulgaria (because I didn't want to emigrate). Unofficially, there was another very important requirement - to be normal. Of course you can never present this request, it would be insulting! But normalcy is not so universal as it is presumed to be.
I would never marry a supporter of Communists, Nazis or Bin Laden, but neither did I require full agreement upon everything, and my husband has different views on many subjects.
Highlander, I took those requirements for converting from your earlier posts (months ago), remember that about a Muslim girl who refused to her Catholic aspiring lover because she couldn't do the required "leap of faith".
7mada, I haven't actually read your blog, just your profile while it was accessible. I don't think a blog MUST be updated very often. On the contrary, I think that if we write in public space, we'd better write only when we have to say something thought to be interesting to others; and at least for me it doesn't happen so often. I think it's a kind of pollution to fill the public space with empty words. I'm sure nobody would object if a nice blog is updated even once per month.
RedEnclave, your comment about being alone is just sad. Of course dignity requires us to stand on our two feet, but we are not made to live alone! I like you and the Darwinist in me is unhappy upon seeing nice people alone and people like war criminal Arkan having 9 kids from 5 women (and perhaps he'd make even more if somebody hadn't shot him, so doing a fabour to the world).

Anonymous said...

Actually I sort of forgot one important point about my dream woman. It is not really a requirement but certainly helps to spin my wheels. If she has an excellent ability/talent (widely excelling my own). It could be anything, for example: excellent chess player, a fantastic talent for music, or unparalleled gift for languages or poetry.

Highlander said...

NBA => my comment about making a decision is an understatement ;) which brings to mind another important characteristic that seems to lack in a lot of men nowadays namely civility . Not just gallantry but plain good old fashioned civility. Sadly enough and not to generalise, many men ( and women ;) equality oblige ) have just stopped being civil ...

Anonymous said...

NB dude, if I wanted an independent woman I would have written independent as the Finish government prior to 1970 :PP

Anglo-Libyan said...

what a list highlander? and obviously a very intresting subject!! all i can say is very good luck :-)

Highlander said...

NBA :) hypothetical question here ...-thanks for the link by the way - would you convert if that was the only thing Highlander asked from you, after she made her prayers ;)

Maya M said...

Besides legislation in Muslim countries, there are at least some cases in non-Muslim countries when the girl herself (or her parents?) require the non-Muslim man to convert. I heard that a French national soccer team player converted in order to marry a girl of Algerian origin. Also, a Bulgarian soldier in Iraq fell in love with a local woman and had to convert, although they were planning to live in Bulgaria, not in Iraq.
So, Non-blogging, if you wish a hot Arab girl but also insist to remain loyal to your faith or lack thereof, perhaps pious Muslim girls are haram for you but there still remain the Arab Christians, Muslim heretics and apostates.
Among Finland's "Muslims" many are Arabs, aren't they? Quite off-hand. Have you checked whether some of their girls post in Finnish dating sites :) ?
I've been thinking for some time, it's easy for people like me to rant against Muslim immigrants to Europe, "Integrate, you bad people why aren't you integrating?" - but if a girl of ME origin integrates so much that becomes almost unmarriable inside her community, what's the chance that a local knight will offer her a hand and a heart?

Highlander said...

NBA - Thank you for answering this very serious hypothetical question. I think your reply has been the best one I've heard for a long time on this issue.
You strike me as a very decent and romantic person - what did Adam call you ? ah a softie :)

Thank you also for all the links you provided espcially about tht Tatars.I found it very interesting and enlightening .- but I insist that hot Arab girls are the hottest ;)

Highlander said...

For NBA talking about conversion , what do you think of this blogger ?

http://getoutlines.blogspot.com/2006/06/conversion-stories-part-one.html

Maya M said...

Non-Blogging (if you are still here), the last part of my last comment was actually inspired by a Tatar student in Bulgaria. I knew about her from my colleague who taught her. She looked, dressed, walked and talked like any native European girl. And then one wonderful morning she came to class all wrapped in a long dress and with a headscarf. "Sudden jihad syndrome"? No, she had married and her husband requested her to dress "decently".
We began to argue about this student. Only I defended her, my colleagues bashed her for renouncing her freedom.
"But it is also important to have a family," I said, "and if she couldn't find a Tatar man who would let her free after marriage - and she knows Tatar men better than any of us here does - what could she do?"
"She could marry a European man," a female colleague replied.
Here I really got angry - the poor girl probably spent whole nights mourning her freedom, and people were talking without thinking.
"Oh yeah," I said sarcastically, "European men are known for their willingness to marry, aren't they? They just line behind single women to offer their hand. Especially if the woman is a Tatar. A European man would be most likely to start an affair with her, then abandon her and so make her unmarriable."

Highlander said...

Hi Maya,

"Everybody knows that converts are much more likely to become terrorists than born and bred Muslims "

I'm not sure which statistics show this, I might say it's slightly stereotypical as it implies that Islam makes the converts terrorists.

"This is because an important reason for a Westerner to convert to Islam is extreme hate to the civilization he was born in."

I don't think so, the Westerner may just not like some aspects of his lacking spiritual life not the whole Western civilization. You said yourself in an earlier comment that according to you Europe has been perceived to become to materialist etc.. Maybe a westerner converting to Islam for reasons other than marriage , is just like the one converting to Budhism ... he/she just wants to achieve inner peace -Zen - a balance of ying and yang .
I mean it is possible that some crazy mullah may brainwash a convert, but a human has a brain and should use it to decide what is right and what is wrong. The Bulgarian convert was like other European non-Muslim who went to Iraq to become human shields. Being a Muslims was just accidental. what about the other human shields ? 99/9% were not Muslim.

So to answer your question "Can conversion be coupled with unwillingness to see the truth?" no it cannot , because Sadam is NOT a Caliph or an Islamic leader or scholar or prophet , in fact I would hesitate to label him even as a Muslim.

Your other Bulgarian convert is a nitwit - even in backward Saudi Arabia you need to take a photo of the face to be ID-ed.There is nothing in Islam that says you have to cover your face or look like a tent.

Not all converts to Islam are loosers Maya, but maybe those are the ones who make the headlines because their story sells. However, a lot of previously loosers or lost sould do convert to Islam or become born again Christians no ?


NBA, yes I agree that asking about someone's conversion can be an innocent question as well. However, in regards to the recent events since 9/11 and the bad image projected about Islam worldwide, I'm willing to bet many of the questions she is receiving are not of the innocent type, but more of the gory type, just like the Tatar girl Maya spoke about was getting from her peers...

LOL NBA -softie you almost got converted enough to get a name , there is yet hope for you my friend.

I remember Sri-Lankan taxi driver last month in London who used the trip to Heathrow at 6am in the morning to attempt to convert me to Christianity , he was an Evangelical who was converted by an AMerican missionary in Sri-Lanka -(he was forced into it so that he can play in the school team and enjoy the benefits that the football team obtained such as financial help with studies etc) He told me a very good story which apparently was inspired when he found I was single (getting back on topic here lol ). So he spend more than one hour telling me his life story, to convince me that I should pray to get a husband as according to him I should not be single, but also that only my prayers to Jesus specifically would get me a husband!and to do that I had to convert. The guy was matchmaking ;) why is everybody trying to marry me off .. even foreign taxi drivers ?

Redenclave , I agree with you ..never blame the religion . but the human frailty, If a Muslim leaves Islam, it's between him and God , who are we to judge? usually this is just a phase and these people rediscover Islam some years down the road , when whatever it is they needed to do and made them leave it turns out to be just a sparkling mirage. Watch Hirsi in 10 years after she becomes hopefully more educated ;)

Yes NBA the state should not decide in these matters, but until then if a non-Muslim wants to marry a Libyan hottie ( all are Muslims here ) he has to go along with converting ( at least in name) if he loves her enough for that ;)

Maya M said...

Highlander, let me first say that the taxi driver was wrong. We have a proverb, "The vineyard needs a hoe, not a prayer". No prayer, Muslim or Christion or whatever, is likely to help you find a partner, unless you are praying in a mixed congregation where praying doesn't consume all of the worshippers' attention :). But flirting while praying seems a bit too shallow even to me.
About spirituality and religion etc... The question has two sides. I wrote myself that weakened or lost belief is often accompanied by moral decline. But let me also quote S. Weinberg, "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
I think that when a single person does a very evil thing, it's not necessarily connected with his religion, policital convictions, nationality or other background characteristics, but is most easily explained by psychopathy. In rare occasions, the same holds true for 2 people, if they are strongly connected (spouses, siblings or parent and child). But if more people do an evil thing together, you have to seek a common background to explain this.
Those Libyans who believe that 6 Bulgarians infected their children with AIDS blame the entire Bulgarian nation and meet any Bulgarian with the slogan "Thank you for the AIDS". They think that if 6 people from a given society do something terrible together, then the entire society must be sick. There is no logical flaw (the flaw I find in the Libyans' reasoning lies elsewhere).
After Sept. 11, I knew that there must be a reason for 19 sane intelligent men to do something so evil (not counting their commanders and the many thousands Palestinians and others who celebrated). I knew one my friend had a Koran, so I borrowed the book to read and find out.
Now, Mr. Nasrallah has become the hero of the Muslim world because of his success in killing Israeli civilians. Can the Muslim world reach a deeper point in moral degradation? I cannot imagine, but let's wait and see, every time when I think this is impossible they manage to make another step downward. If the Devil exists and makes list of the souls who belong to him, I pity the poor fellow, he must already have arthritis from the too-intensive writing or typing.
Still, the Muslims, esp. the new Muslims, emotionally blackmail us (and tolerant people like Non-blogging give in to the blackmail). They say, "We have the sacred freedom to be or become Muslims, and you mustn't show even the slightest surprise or let alone disapprovement when you see us embracing our religion".
Eh well, not quite. Under Bulgarian law, Communist parties and the new all-hating party called Ataka are legal and everybody is free to vote for them or become their member. We the others are equally free to express our disapprovement of Communist and Fascist ideology. And if my friend tells me she will vote for one of the above mentioned parties, I would not only ask why but I would make no effort to delete the frown from my face.
Of course there are very many born Muslims and some converts that deserve everybody's respect. I wanted to mention the late Margaret Hassan, but as I opened her Wikipedia page to give the reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hassan), I read there that she was in fact no convert. It's amazing - the only admirable convert I know turns out not to be such! Is it my fault?

Maya M said...

I mean that they say, "This is our holy book, it's written there that people like you are the filthiest creatures on Earth and their heads must be chopped off, we of course believe in this because it, like every other word in this book, is directly from God, but if you express the slightest criticism of our religion or us, you are intolerand bigots."
And you, Non-blogging, said that the curiosity about the reasons for converting may be innocent (not containing any disapprovement), so implying that if the curiosity DOES contain disapprovement, then it is wrong.

Maya M said...

Non-blogging, I apologize to you, I believe now that this is your opinion and you have not been blackmailed. I am paranoic sometimes, just see what comments I'm writing, the original Highlander's post was about the man she would love!
About my Koranic "quotes" - here are English translations of the corresponding verses:
"Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures." (98:6)(http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/098.qmt.html).
"Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost." (47:4)(http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/047.qmt.html).
Of course nobody told this straight to my face, our opponents are not so sincere when it comes to the fundamentals of Islam, but this is what they mean. I find little comfort in your thought that "all so-called holy books of all religions surely contain nonsensical thinking like that". I know of course that in the past Christians have done horrible things in the name of Christianity. This despite the peaceful nature of the New Tastement (compared to the Koran). Then, what could we expect of Islam? We are now threatened by it, not by any other religion.
I bet that Highlander cannot remember when she first learned that she and all around her are Muslims and heard Koranic verses being recited. I doubt whether she can imagine how an adult non-Muslim feels when first reading the Koran. Bulgarian poet Svintila, describing the Communist concentration camp system, titled his memoirs "The Face of the Gorgon". I'll borrow his expression: reading those texts while knowing that hundreds of millions take them seriously feels like looking into the face of a gorgon.
Our opponents think, with much reason, that most of us are too lazy to read the Koran and those few who will read it will be petrified by its content.
Highlander, about Hirsi (Ali) - to return to Islam, she needs not only to become more educated, she needs to step over the corpse of her co-worker Theo van Gogh. Among the things I liked least in the Koran was the moment when a dead believer in Paradise, seeing his non-believing friend in Hell, doesn't say, "My poor friend! Why didn't I spend more time to convince him?", but rejoyces that he has escaped the same fate. I'm used to a culture where even believers find loyalty of humans to each other more important than loyalty to the almighty God who should be able to take care of himself and his business. If God requires us to step over the corpses of other people in order to pass a test, then I agree with Terry Pratchett that we shouldn't believe in such a God even if He does exist because, by believing, we are only encouraging Him.

Maya M said...

RedEnclave, it's natural. I began work at 23 at a place where an unmarried woman hadn't been appointed for a long time. So of course everybody was curious if and when and whom I'd marry. And some kept asking. Especially the lab technicians and sanitary workers, because they had ended their education at 20 or earlier and had married immediately. So I was already "too ripe" from their viewpoint.
However, as years were passing, they began to consider me a hopeless old maiden lady. When I was 29 or 30, they decided not to drop salt into my wound and stopped asking.
Then, I married.

Highlander said...

NBA my friend I don't need to defend Islam, God takes care of that...what I can do is explain but nothing more it is not my job to evangelise or do Dawa or proselytise....

Mr Highlander said...

Google will get a Nobel for this.