tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post115637743080864991..comments2024-03-17T10:32:01.495+02:00Comments on From the Rock: Highlanderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16532761296990891687noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156823098677966612006-08-29T06:44:00.000+03:002006-08-29T06:44:00.000+03:00LOL Maya :) I meant brainwashed about the men not ...LOL Maya :) I meant brainwashed about the men not the country.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156800376798244282006-08-29T00:26:00.000+03:002006-08-29T00:26:00.000+03:00To me, "emigrate or not" is one of the most seriou...To me, "emigrate or not" is one of the most serious choices in life. And unfortunately, too many people do it practically without thinking, as with other important choices. Of course one can be useful both by remaining and by moving. But many people, possibly most people, are "plant-like" and cannot be really happy at another place. Many of our emigrants, coming back for a vacation, just keep complaining. Sometimes it's on the tip of my tongue to say that all they need to do in order to solve their grievances is to cancel their return flights... The host country is cold, the locals are mean and so on. In fact, if you listen carefully to what they say, you'll find (no need even to seek other sources) that nothing is wrong with the adoptive country and its people, except that they are different from what our emigrants are familiar with, and this could hardly be regarded as a defect.<BR/>Why "brainwashed"? The wish to remain in one's country has nothing to do with whether you find it the only (or at least the greatest) democracy in the world and other things of this kind.Maya Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10877457709995369246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156755125195723452006-08-28T11:52:00.000+03:002006-08-28T11:52:00.000+03:00Hi Redenclave & Maya :) as usual you were the only...Hi Redenclave & Maya :) as usual you were the only two who picked up on that tiny detail ;) ( no one noticed I guess ). I find your analogy of the pact those little girls did quite touching Maya. To answer yours and Red's inquiry (about myself at least) I would say very simply that I don't mind any nationality because I excluded non-Libyans for a due to my wish to remain in Libya.Yep those Libyan suitors did no fit Mr.Highlander list, and then I woke up to realise that I was silly and arrogant to limit my scope? what is so special about Libyan men ? wonderful men are all over the world, and there is nothing in my culture or upbringing which prevents me from taking a non-Libyan mate ;) <BR/>Therefore being in these exciting times of globalisation , we can adopt his and my country. I'm not interested in immigration Maya, (economic or other) otherwise I would have done it years ago-that's why I won't 'desert' Libya, but by adopting and loving two countries you can be useful to both on the ground. It is possible is it not ? Plus it is so much more enriching than just being with a Libyan guy ;). <BR/>Redenclave - LOL maybe you are right ? and maybe I have been brainwashed ....Highlanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16532761296990891687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156722547201598992006-08-28T02:49:00.000+03:002006-08-28T02:49:00.000+03:00Highlander, after you don't want to desert Libya, ...Highlander, after you don't want to desert Libya, why on Earth are you off Libyan men?<BR/>Is it just because of your signature under the girly pact mentioned by Pumpkin? "I haven’t forgotten our little summit, where we vowed to boycott all Libyan males... I still remember our new motto: Goodbye Libyans, Hello Non-Libyans."<BR/>I guess, one of the girls had her heart broken by a man, as always happens here and there, and the party decided this nastiness was a patent of Libyan men only...<BR/>I know of a pact by a group of 15-year olds who once thought how awful it is to get old. They decided to meet again in the year they turn 40, at the edge of a particular cliff, and to jump together off it. Eh well, they are all retired now, some even aren't among us anymore, but NOT because they jumped off that cliff.Maya Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10877457709995369246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156707781905722852006-08-27T22:43:00.000+03:002006-08-27T22:43:00.000+03:00Thanks Hanu for the explanation, I thought the lad...Thanks Hanu for the explanation, I thought the lady was 70 years old , my bad, ok so if this is a young woman that it is even more shocking !<BR/><BR/>Salmons eh ? maybe you could do a post about that ? I obviously don't know enough about it :)<BR/><BR/>He he he I was planning on making a post about Tasyig but I won't be the Highlander you are used to without some spice in the ME situation now would I ? <BR/><BR/>Actually i'm surprised that such mundane posts and supposedly 'fun' ones spark so much debate. Honestly ? I like it and enjoy every bit ! Thank you all as usual for making it possible. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Also the Libyans 'stuck in a time warp' would probably make a very hot topic- I expect sparks to fly off .Highlanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16532761296990891687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156705711913818162006-08-27T22:08:00.000+03:002006-08-27T22:08:00.000+03:00HL, the Berber lady I mentioned was born in the 70...HL, the Berber lady I mentioned was born in the 70s, so she's in her late 20s early 30s. Also, she's from what is known here as the Salmons--the Libyans who were born here in the 70s but went back to Libya soon after and are now migrating back to the US in flocks... the cycle is repeated. She's only been here a couple of years. And that was what made it more shocking to me. It was the first time I hear a Libyan talking about "their" slaves.<BR/><BR/>As to the matter of those who hold the frozen image of Libya as they left it in the 70s, that's another worthy diversion for another long discussion by itself.<BR/><BR/>I must say, HL, you're sparking off some nice topics with your latest posts. Those "mysterious" words in your posts will lead from one topic to the other. Is it Zeleiz and teyeg next? :)<BR/><BR/>PC, yes North Africans traded in white slaves too, very undiscriminating! I believe Twareg traded in white slaves; role reversal kind of.Hannuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07277562554072670167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156697704831679732006-08-27T19:55:00.000+03:002006-08-27T19:55:00.000+03:00The slavery issue in North Africa is interesting, ...The slavery issue in North Africa is interesting, because european whites were also held as slaves in North Africa. Not all that long ago, as well as in the distant past. The Libyan pirates in particular took many europeans as slaves during their raids on shipping. I have to say the North African views on slavery seem very democratic at least :P<BR/><BR/>North Africa is also unusualy in that it was occupied by Germans (the Vandal tribe) in pre-Arab and pre-islamic times. Not sure how that effects the gene pool.<BR/><BR/>Plus, there's the Phoenicians! And the Romans! It's probably one of the most diverse gene pools on the planet.programmer craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17566950406349754166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156690303212089322006-08-27T17:51:00.000+03:002006-08-27T17:51:00.000+03:00Hi Hanu :) , you're right I'm not sure exactly wh...Hi Hanu :) , you're right I'm not sure exactly why but I was reading negativity into the words, especially in conjunction with the original question asked by Non-blogging whether really Libyans of all colours were represented in the various echelons. <BR/><BR/>But I am appalled at that Berber old lady saying '3ebeedna' , that is so disgusting. I'm wondering is it because she lives abroad and time has stood still for her? ps not accusing here only asking ...as I honestly don't know how do the people who have lived overseas since the 70s think . From my simplified and naive impression I get the feeling that they are holding on to a past and to a Libya that exists only in their imagination, and not necessarily a better one mind you (which does not mean that now it is fantastic either).<BR/><BR/>Dear Hanu I can access historical facts and litterature too, and did not deny Libya's slavery past as you must have noted from my first reply. We are not in disagreement about that, however the Libya I know now is different than the one in the 70s. <BR/><BR/>I guess we thought we were talking about the same topic while really we were running two topics in parallel. <BR/><BR/>As for my off the topic remark as you so correctly pointed out, I agree that was irrelevant to the discussion, and I should not have reacted this way towards your words.Highlanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16532761296990891687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156686303386790312006-08-27T16:45:00.000+03:002006-08-27T16:45:00.000+03:00Yes, HL, Libya is a "classless" society, whichever...Yes, HL, Libya is a "classless" society, whichever meaning you want to take for that :)<BR/><BR/>I know how attractive olive-skinned people are; I'm one of them :) I'm not of the opinion that fair skin is better, not at all. Actually, in most cases, skin color has nothing to do with beauty. And I didn't say that skin color denotes society strata in Libya nowadays. The inherited perception from those old days resulted in equating fair skin with beauty. That's all. You go back to the roots of this perception, and you'll find what I'm talking about. <BR/><BR/>And slavery is not a matter of ancient history or the far past in Libya. About two years ago, we got together with some Berber friends, from Zwara. The lady, who was born in the 70s, was still referring to some as "3beedna", our slaves.<BR/><BR/>Now to your words <I>"Dear Libya is not all negative Hanu, and we certainly should not desert it to those who want it for themselves , after all it is your heritage and mine too :)"</I><BR/><BR/>I don't know how that fits in the discussion. We are discussing the skin color preference in Libya. I didn't say Libya is all negative, nor did I imply that. I talked about facts and history. If that made you read that I was implying Libya is all negative, then be it, you read what you want from the facts. To me it does not. As for deserting it, my actions speak louder than my words :)Hannuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07277562554072670167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156684915830170102006-08-27T16:21:00.000+03:002006-08-27T16:21:00.000+03:00"As for the black Berber friend. Black Berbers are..."As for the black Berber friend. Black Berbers are originally slaves owned by Berber families. With time, those slave families were kind of adopted by their owners and some even bear the owners' family name". <BR/><BR/>Hanu, yes I knew about that because I was surprised that they had the same family surname and so made research about it and asked the dear old people from my tribe - that's the best way to learn about Libyan history. And although the word 'nedef'= clean is still used sometimes nowadays to describe a fair reddish person ( they may even say 'a7mar' = red ) . There really is nowadays a great mix up of the population , where being white or fair does not necessarily mean being at the upper end of the spectrum , simply because the olive are the majority and so you will find them in all the strata's of the society. In my experience - Libya is a classless society, and though many Libyans are a tad bit racist, I don't think it is in the bigotted sense of the word but more in the xenophobia kind. I hope you will come back and visit some day and find how those olive skinned girls & guys are quite good looking ( even though I'm off Libyan men lool ). <BR/><BR/>Dear Libya is not all negative Hanu, and we certainly should not desert it to those who want it for themselves , after all it is your heritage and mine too :)<BR/><BR/>As for not accessing my top post - I think it is a problem with blogger because as I told you on your blog I could not access your top blog either ( the comment section). Aah blogger has its quirks from time to time but I love it !Highlanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16532761296990891687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156683874214370922006-08-27T16:04:00.000+03:002006-08-27T16:04:00.000+03:00HL, no I can't access your Shebsheb Zanouba commen...HL, no I can't access your Shebsheb Zanouba comments page. Guess it has to do with blogger rather than the blogs.Hannuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07277562554072670167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156683268195270982006-08-27T15:54:00.000+03:002006-08-27T15:54:00.000+03:00A quick note (haven't had my morning coffee yet!)H...A quick note (haven't had my morning coffee yet!)<BR/><BR/>HL, to my knowledge and based on first-hand experience, Libya is not a society that accepts the different let alone desires the exception. I don't agree that Libyan like fair skin just because we don't have many of fair-skinned people. Libyans use the term nedeef (clean) for the fair skinned. And yes it has to do with the perception of whites being cleaner and superior, and prettier, to olive skins and blacks.<BR/><BR/>As for the black Berber friend. Black Berbers are originally slaves owned by Berber families. With time, those slave families were kind of adopted by their owners and some even bear the owners' family name.<BR/><BR/>Slavery was widely spread in Libya, even during the Senousi era, I believe. Some of those slave families are still known to have been slaves of this family or the other and sometimes are still referred to as so.<BR/><BR/>My point is, that turned not be so quick, favoring fair skin has to do with the perceived status from those days back then of slaves and non-slaves, clean and not-so-clean.Hannuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07277562554072670167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156638657655659782006-08-27T03:30:00.000+03:002006-08-27T03:30:00.000+03:00NBA, skin colour has nothing to do with social str...NBA, skin colour has nothing to do with social strata in Libya.... and even though we were a slave trading country along time ago, slaves came in all colours too. I have a berber friend who is black, and another one who is olive , whil the third one is very very fair... lol we Libyans are the exception to the rule in a lot of things .I'm not sure that's so great though...Plus Libyan society has changed so much in the last decades..we don't really have an aristocracy here, we had the Turks ( many are fair) who intermarried here, but not really an aristocracy..<BR/><BR/>Hanu or Suliman may know more and correct me<BR/><BR/>PS Hanu I know you meant well by saying I'm not a typical Libyan ;)Highlanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16532761296990891687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156610104596031112006-08-26T19:35:00.000+03:002006-08-26T19:35:00.000+03:00Hanu :) I'm not so sure that olive or tanned skin...Hanu :) I'm not so sure that olive or tanned skinned is a sign of ugliness in Libya, because although we come in every colour the 'olive skin' is the majority. People like what is 'rarer' that's just more attractive because it is different- and what is different for us is the fairer skin that is all. It does not necessarily mean that we think of olive skin as ugly. If we use the same analogy then all the tourists and people spending thousands of dollars on tanning salons and lotion think that being white or pinkish is ugly ? Or those women with straight here who go and ruin it on perms to get curly her believe that women with straigh hair is ugly ? <BR/><BR/>People just like what they don't have IMHO :)<BR/>Being fairer or blond is desirable in Libya simply because that is NOT the norm but that does not necessarily mean that the person will get married - I know what I'm talking about I must have attended literally hundreds of weddings in the last two years at least.Highlanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16532761296990891687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156609432188532192006-08-26T19:23:00.000+03:002006-08-26T19:23:00.000+03:00You know Khadijateri, that section in the newspape...You know Khadijateri, that section in the newspaper used to be reserved for penpal advertisement so I usually skip it , but when I saw the wedding couple I thought I'd have a look , to my surprise Libyans were searching for partners there:)...<BR/>Interestingly enough in the last 4 years I've attended 3 weddings in Libya ( of Libyans of course)where the couple met online , and you know what ? they are very happy, I guess they had time to really get to know each other first without the hormone - mammal attraction ;) - also I have a few blogger friends who married this way too and one of my uni classmates just got a proposal last month after she met a guy on yahoo personals -she sent me the photo of her engagement the guy is gorgeous in his navy uniform !Highlanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16532761296990891687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156606213227721342006-08-26T18:30:00.000+03:002006-08-26T18:30:00.000+03:00Maya, I think you're the one who posted about how ...Maya, I think you're the one who posted about how one can get used to an ugly man, but not ugly children. That girl apparently doesn't want to have ugly children, since olive skin is a trait of ugliness in Libya.Hannuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07277562554072670167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156594087699481912006-08-26T15:08:00.000+03:002006-08-26T15:08:00.000+03:00aaaahhh..... I knew it would come to this eventual...aaaahhh..... I knew it would come to this eventually... I wonder how much longer it will be until I attend a wedding from a newspaper match... hehehe... now that will be something to write about.<BR/><BR/>ps. still not able to see your posts on my rss feedreader. Can you check your settings and see if they are enabled?KhadijaTerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01279047119702679252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156544198896727822006-08-26T01:16:00.000+03:002006-08-26T01:16:00.000+03:00First timer :) welcome and glad you are participat...First timer :) welcome and glad you are participating, the more the merrier ..Highlanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16532761296990891687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156544029867093802006-08-26T01:13:00.000+03:002006-08-26T01:13:00.000+03:00NBA that post is meant for when you don't have an ...NBA that post is meant for when you don't have an Arabic keyboard and also when you are talking to your Arabic audience who knows English it's just such fun introducing Arabic in it . After a while these Arab words become part of the foreign vocabulary .. just like maboule ( crazy) become a French word for example, and other similar stuff, and just like many English words have been inserted into our spoken vocabulary...<BR/><BR/>Thanks Pumpkin you did a great job !Highlanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16532761296990891687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156543752145978702006-08-26T01:09:00.000+03:002006-08-26T01:09:00.000+03:00Oh, and RE, I got married here in the US. The banq...Oh, and RE, I got married here in the US. The banquet was in Chinatown, in Los Angeles. We must have had over 500 guests and it went on for about 8 hours, and there were so many ceremonies and traditions, I could never recall all of it. It was very fun but very stressful too. I've been to about a dozen Chinese weddings now and I still don't "get" everything that's going on, because my cantonese is very poor, and it takes the fun out of it if I try and ask somebody what's going on every step of the way :)programmer craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17566950406349754166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156543580922206332006-08-26T01:06:00.000+03:002006-08-26T01:06:00.000+03:00The skin tonme thing is funny. On that muslim matr...The skin tonme thing is funny. On that muslim matrimonials site I linked for you a long time ago, NBA, most the skin tones are things like "Light wheatish" medium wheatish" "dark wheatish" "fair" etc... <BR/><BR/>Here in the US we associate "olive" skin tones with most people of mediterranean origin. It's considered maybe the best of all complexions. I'm "ruddy" myself, which means I'm kinda pink, which sucks, in my opinion :P<BR/><BR/>The only European skin tone I like is the alabaster pale skin tone which is just kind of ivory white.<BR/><BR/>Highlander, that was an excellent description of complexions you quoted, thanks!programmer craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17566950406349754166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156526583600564662006-08-25T20:23:00.000+03:002006-08-25T20:23:00.000+03:00Adma, as far as I know some Arabic letters are use...Adma, as far as I know some Arabic letters are used in place of some Arabic sounds/letters which don’t exist in the English Language. So no. 7 represents the sound …hmm.. how should I say it? It is the second sound in the name Ahmed..it is not like the English ha…h..it is different. It is written in Arabic as ح . No. 6 is used for the sound Ta, I think. Because it somehow resembles the letter ط . No. 3 for the sound Ayen.. hmm ..still too difficult to get the sound.. And it is written like this in Arabic ع. <BR/>Shurkan<BR/>PumpkinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156523399466281132006-08-25T19:29:00.000+03:002006-08-25T19:29:00.000+03:00It seems that in all the commotion my little lingu...It seems that in all the commotion my little linguistic curiosity got lost, so will have to repost.<BR/><BR/><I>Now that the Arabic for Eurosofties 101 class is starting, what is it with numeric transliterations? What sounds do they represent? 7-3-9-2 ?<BR/><BR/>as this for example from Roba's place:<BR/><BR/>il 3i9i wil 7ajar bikasro 3dami…bes il kalimat mish 7aa ti2limneesh</I><BR/><BR/>Or is this what I suspect it is? Secret codes designed to sneak subv3rsiv3 messegages past the NSA & Homeland Security?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156520925827344732006-08-25T18:48:00.000+03:002006-08-25T18:48:00.000+03:00Hi All,This is my first reply here even though I'm...Hi All,<BR/><BR/>This is my first reply here even though I'm a frequent visitor, But I've never posted anything. Anyway I couldn't help but noticing all the fuss about the olive color and everyone attributing olive to either green or black? but as a libyan, and I know there are other libyans here, what men consider to be olive color is the color of olive oil no the olives themselves when put in a transparent bottle or container you kinda yellowish/brownish. just wanted to participate :) .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5760993.post-1156519853541949492006-08-25T18:30:00.000+03:002006-08-25T18:30:00.000+03:00It seems to me funny that the second lady writes s...It seems to me funny that the second lady writes she has olive skin but requires fair skin from her partner.Maya Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10877457709995369246noreply@blogger.com