Thursday, December 14, 2006

Libyan Muhajababes © & Hijab


If you asked me the ratio of veiled women in Libya to non-veiled I would confidently say that now , veiled of all types are a comfortable majority. Noticing this phenomenon, which is apparently rising in North Africa ( and probably in the Middle East as well ) the BBC had an article about it yesterday, specifically about Libya. ( Check out this hottie => courtesy of BBC lovely,stylish and fitting all the stereotypes westerners dream about )

Excerpt

Najat wore the veil a few years ago because her teenage daughter suddenly
decided to cover up. She has since been caught in a moral and religious battle
with herself. [..]
My husband is open-minded and we sometimes travel on
holiday, so I was thinking the next time we do that, what if I feel like going
to a nightclub with him? I can't do that with a veil - I'm seriously thinking of
removing it permanently - I feel so restricted with it." [..]


People are wearing it for all sorts of reasons and not always the right one as demonstrated above but one of them at least is simple peer pressure. i.e. in a stealthy way, just to blend in society.

Sometimes I feel discriminated against , not in an obvious way, just those tiny hints. For example last time I was chatting with some colleagues : "Highlander , you 're such a nice person, why don't wear a scarf ( only a scarf mind you ) and you will see you will get married straight away" . So with that attitude of course what do you expect? But now I'm thinking they may have a point , because I have never been much sought after more than on those days I went to the fish market or vegetable market in my uncoordinated home clothes and sports shoes and with a scarf on my head and neck for the sun/wind. I personally think I looked like a scarecrow, but that is the day that I got loveletters on my car, phone numbers thrown my way, cars stalking me to my home, marriage proposals . I never associated it with the scarf only with me being somehow sexier with my housecoat or tracksuit LOL.

Here someone offers an explanation of how the hijab came about in Libya :


"I think the beginning of the hijab trend which appeared in the 1980s in Libya
was mainly due to economic reasons like things becoming more expensive and low state wages." [..]


Whilst I agree that there could have been an economical reason yet in the 80s there was not much shopping ask anyone about it. And although it has been said and I agree with it as well that many women use some form of hijab during the times when they are just feeling too lazy to dress and so wearing a jilbab or overcoat and a scarf is quicker as Sereeb says here during a heated discussion at AngloLibyan about his post on Muslim schools in London which turned about the veil. However, I still believe that my theory of how hijab in Libya was more as a direct result of the War in Afghanistan, as expounded in my previous post on hijab still holds .

In Libya you will encounter all sorts of hijabs, even the niqab is increasing lately ( more about that later) , but the most obvious form is that which author Allegra Stratton coined for her book Muhajababes .

"Jihan demonstrates her faith with a fashionable edge. She wears tight blue jeans, a grey shirt under a tight pink vest, an olive-green veil with sequins
and matching accessories to go with it. "[BBC again]



Jihan is a typical example of a 'babe - I can't believe that the considerably less tight jeans on me and a T-shirt but with no head cover were enough to have made one male pass a judgement 3 years ago and still maintain it nowadays; talk about patronizing behaviour- bah !


Those ladies , according to Muhajababes' author are the new Middle East and are influenced by Amr Khaled as opposed to those women who veiled in the 80s as a result of the Afghan warriors. According to her they show all the contradictions of this century ; the non-stop Haifa Wahbe and others Arab pop stars quasi nude renderings on Arab satellite TV ! Which Saudi and the Gulf are exporting right into our living room and the increased covering of the flesh in real life - weird equation. But you will have to read the study for yourself. Everything is not as easy/clear as it seems . hmm I was planning to make this post sweet and short , but it turned into something else. Well anyway, basically anyone can wear what they want in my opinion as long as they don't judge me. :) Plus I stated clearly what I thought about hijab in my previous posts and here as well.



On another note I would also like to highlight the part below from the same article in light of the Jack Straw controversy :


A little-known fact about Libya is that teachers are not allowed to teach with
their entire faces covered.
It is not a Libyan law that imposes that
restriction, but rather an undeclared one that the educational community agrees
on.
And while schools here carry lessons in Islam, teachers are not allowed
to preach and influence their students on how to implement it.

28 comments:

Lebeeya said...

I was reading this article a few weeks ago. It was talking about things and what they symbolises. It said that in the Middle East the headscarf symbolises respect, honor and strength of faith.

I think that if a girl wears the hijab for the right reasons, out of fear of God and her faith, then it bars her from doing things that she would have been able to do if she was not a mut7ajiba.

I wear the hijab and I love it. I honestly do see it as a symbol of respect and honor. Plus it is a constant reminder that I am a representive of my religion. It is very similar to the situation of praying five times a day, it refrains me of what is bad "al salat tanha 3an al fahsha wa almunkar".

I think in the Arab world, people have lost the true meaning of Islam, and do things just for the sake of society, that is why we see some contradictory actions.

white african said...

thanks for putting this article up, first time i come across it..

interesting that for once libya is mentioned in relation to something other than lockerbie, oil or the bulgarians :).

Anonymous said...

Cute post highlander! It was interesting reading the article and then reading your take on it. You even commented on all the things I was going to ask about :)

Libyan Warrior( The King Of Al-Andalaus) said...

Here is a Libyan Guys Look at it:

1. I think you people have all gone completly boonkers.:)

2. You guys give waaaaaay 2 much thought to something so insignificant, its a obsesion amongst people in NA and ME.

3. I like the Headscarf, it is intimidating:) I dont know why.
Its gives a feminist you can touch me you evil male pig type of vibe.lol. I am sorry thats just the way I feel, its like a authoratative thing. I have nothing but respect for girls who wear headscarfs.

But it means absolutly nothing if you have no manners or respect for your self and others. Same goes for the Bums with the unkept beard, If you dont have the Islamic Principals to back up the look then PLEASE DO NOT WEAR A HEADSCARF OR A SKULL CAP.

When you dress in such a manner people consider you a prime Example of what a Muslim Man or Muslim Women is, and a living example of the principals of Islam and Islamic Teachings put to work.

Unfortunatly I find in my assesment that their are many girls who wear headscarfs and are crypto-atheists, they dont pray, they dont really belive in god, they have no morals, the treat people like trash they backbite, and gossip, stiring up all kinds of crazy shit. Alot of them dont even know why they are wearing the scarf.

And I have also found many girls who pray, and have good manners and morals, who dress modestly without the headscarf.

I wont even begin with the men, the average Skull capper is a dog, with no morals, a filthy degenarate Bum, who is illiterate. Usually hailing from the Stan Family.

In anycase. Here are the Verses.

Surat an-Nur (24:30-31):

Say to the muminun that they should lower their gaze
and guard their private parts.
That is purer for them.
Allah is aware of what they do.

Say to the mumin women that they should lower their eyes
and guard their private parts
and not display their adornments -
except for what normally shows -
and draw their covers across their breasts.

They should only display their adornments to their husbands
or their fathers or their husbands’ fathers,
or their sons or their husbands’ sons
or their brothers or their brothers’ sons
or their sisters’ sons
or other women
or those they own as slaves
or their male attendants who have no sexual desire
or children who still have no awareness
of women’s private parts.



Enough wallah I have a headache from this topic, lets end the discussion here.

We solved the Problem those are the verses.

Now lets move on to bigger Issues tackling the society, lets see

1. What do we do about all of the Sub-Sahreans who are Sliting the Throats of Old Libyan women, and robbing our homes?

What do we do with the Drug problem that the Blacks brought to the country?

What do we do about all of the crimes they are commiting, the defiling of our women being the most important?

Hey how about The AIDS virius which has come to Libya and massivily spread because of these filthy people.

Can we fix that problem, and all the hepatitise they brough with them?

If Libya wants a African Identity, and really wants out of the "Arab world" we should bring Immigrants from Kabyle in Algeria and Rifs in Morroco.

Instead of PAYING blacks to come to Libya, instead of PAYING Libyan men to marry their women we should bring fellow berbers from neighboring nations , their Government does not want them, we have a population of 5 Million, much of which is not "Libyan"

Little Kabyle has approxamilty 6 Million alone, and thats not Big Kabyle, thats the little baby one, bring some from Rifs as well, give them money, god knows we give money to every douchbag from the fat black shit sniffer in robes from some god forsaken hell hole in negroidia to farrakhan to the celts.

Give them land, give them oil, and let them enlighten us with the ancient wisdom of North Africa!

Libyan Warrior( The King Of Al-Andalaus) said...

Women enjoy great freedom in Libya and they really are grateful for the revolution which took up their cause. We have women in the army, police, customs, law, medicine, social sciences and workers, education, politics, services and all aspects of a society.

Viva La Revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Revolution was good for many things, but I must admit this was a highlight.

The Revolution in my opinion restored womens Islamic rights damn near in their entirity.

Anonymous said...

I think H may have slightly overlooked her own comments:

"However, it does not mean that we in the ME should be blinded by this change of strategy because we remember history and the possibility of it repeating itself."

Why the sudden interest with an irrelevant topic ( to the British or "none of their business" topic ), everybody can look at something from a different view with a different perspective that fits his understanding, so i want to introduce a different perspective.

Why do western countries always try to introduce NGO's into countries they invest in or profit from (including Russia and china)? Why do they try to change our view of our culture rather than trying to understand it?
Why would a Libyan who can afford to go abroad every summer which is a privilege reserved to less than .01% of the population be heard ? why would they be chosen as representatives of Libyans and their culture, and others neglected?

How can some people forget that hijab doesn't take a fixed form and doesn't have to be a veil and that our grandparents wore hijab but in a different form (they covered their hair and body?)? Even though they may have taken it for granted and not fully understood it, but only because our religion was an integral part of our culture, and they were deprived their right to study by the turks?

How can people forget that when Libya was supposedly enlightened and Libyan woman began to "unveil", it was during a period of western administration (1950)? Maybe this sudden interest of Hijab is a result of our current goverments independence, which allows the Libyans to express themselves more freely without having to answer to any foreign government? and we shouldn't forget how some governments use foreign policy to promote theological views like anti-abortion and fighting the use of condoms in other countries, while they can't do anything about it in there own? maybe they have a hidden agenda?

Alhamd Allah as H highlighted our government doesn't promote a specific religious view, so maybe this new trend is a result of independent thinking?

And the questions could go on and on, my point is, (in my view ) it is up to the Libyan women to think for themselves and its their religion too so maybe they should stand up and argue for or against ( we have an example here of H and Lebeeya - which I'm proud of)? of course religious debate is usually left for those with stronger theological background but with open minds it would be like unleashing a dam and letting the water settle to a mid point, which would reflect common understanding? I think we can think for ourselves and if anybody thinks it is a threating issue they should debate it with their peers who have a common interest in the welfare of their country and religion?

I completely agree with H's thoughts on discrimination and i think she has a very good point, but I hope she can see that her colleagues might think that they are doing her good, and maybe she can excuse them and judge their intentions rather than their words ( i think she does ).

The last comment on the veil is very significant too, it shows that we can reach a consensus on certain issues (even without laws and regulations) and we are more rational than the Muslims in the west, maybe because we don't have to constantly explain ourselves and don't feel threatened and excluded ? so we can ( i think ) debate with an open heart and good will, but when foreign parties try to take sides thats when trust and faith between different parts of the society is lost and that is what we should be most wary of ( Iraq - Lebanon ?).

Lastly, I think seeing different forms of religious understanding in Libya, both from the extreme right and left is a reflection of how tolerant we are with each other, and even though we may have many social problems it is a good sign to where the country is heading as long as everybody minds his own business (foreigners).

I hope everyone understands that my questions are to stimulate a different approach to the topic, and not to impose a specific view.

Anonymous said...

so, this is still ahot topic, I agree with HL. The Hijab issue (I rather not callit an issue0 in Libya is a social one more than a religious one, and I disagree with the notion that it is economical. and recently with the new wave of moderen oil egyptian style Islam, Amr Khaled and co. (I can't stand this guy). it became wide spread in Libya. My prediction I call all this in a Libyan term a Tahga or a big bubble that will burst one day, and then we will move to another level of social evolution.. Ghazi

Anonymous said...

this reminds me a part of our history : after revolution, we could see some kind of "hippie time", women were clothed with transparent stuffs, moeurs were free...

when a pseudo king took the power after Napoleon these pleasure times got over, turned to a religious puritanism.

So I think what's happening in mulslin countries, might be of the same process : a reaction to freedom of moeurs ; but after this puritanism will follow another period of freedom ; the question, for muslin girls, is when ?

things change quicklier nowadays so lets hope they will not have to wait long

Anonymous said...

I am not sure if economic reasons caused the spread of Hijab. here in the UK most Libyan women strated to wear it in the mid 80s now almost all wear hijab.

Highlander said...

Interesting debate going on here :)

Hi Lebeeya , this is a different article , but yes I read the one about the symbolism.

I think that if a girl wears the hijab for the right reasons, out of fear of God and her faith, then it bars her from doing things that she would have been able to do if she was not a mut7ajiba.

Absolutely right, and as I always keep saying it's got to be for the right reason within one's heart. What's happening is on many fronts running parallel to each other and sometimes I get the impression that many don't understand what they are doing. If it is to keep away from sin then fine but if I'm supposedly being modest on the outside and then I sit during my coffee break and start gossiping about how my neighbour Fatma was spotted entering the flat of a man or seen at his farmhouse, then that's not very good for me to do right ? And then I would go complaining how Highlander is not muhajaba and travels alone :P I call that hypocrisy.

While you got the idea of hijab right ( and me is proud of you and wish I had your strenght) , il dor wil ba'i on the other ladies, hence the contradictions.

White African :) you forgot the illegal immigrants issue as well in your list !

LW Your post is very long and it contains a lot of points which make total sense. so yes I object to those bearded men who say one thing and do another. But allow me to disagree on the part about the Africans, it's not their colour which makes them HIV or HCV positive. Those unfortunate people cross the Sahara because of economic reasons, and yes they have brought in their own social/medical problems into our sparsely populated country. But every human has a brain and a conscience and with that can way what is wrong and what is right , that should be sufficient to guard the good Libyans from fornicating, getting stoned or passing out on bootleg alcohol. i.e good mores and an upright society should prevent us from falling for evil anywhere.Evil is colour and gender blind. But I agree the issue of numerous illegals (or even the legals) should be addressed once and for all.

I find your plan to make Libya into Kabyle interesting . Do you think the 6 million would agree to come to Libya and leave their Kabyle (aka tribal) grounds ?

Anonymous :) I need you to do me a favour OK ? Please take any pseudonym and use ( no need to log in to blogger) just write an ID and consistently use it 3alashani we nabi , it would make it easier on the conversation. OK now onto your comment.

Actually I have not overlooked my own comment :P check my comment about the hottie in this post and you will understand. The muhajababes in Libya are from all segments of the population not the 0.1% just like the more modestly clad are from all segments that's what I'm saying. I'm more hijabed probably than this new trendy ladies except my head is uncovered :P

I don't think anyone forgot how the veil issue is the door that colonialism used to access and justify its action in the ME and NA. 'their women have no freedom' while forgetting at the same time the non-freedom of the European woman at that time. Yes we all read history ( I hope). And this was again the exact excuse drummed into our ears and eyes for years to prepare the audience for the war on Afghanistan when the status of women was never a fashionable topic discussion for the western educated circles. I know that the Women's 'enlightenement' in Egypt for example was sparked in those upper circles who had access to Westerners ( which does not mean I laying blame here so again please no one dare attack me ). My dear anonymous I can read my gender and politics books 101 too :P

But I totally agree with you that this is an issue which should be discussed among us in our own countries. I'm glad those ladies are free to wear their clothes as they see fit , layers of tight cotton tops , showing the navel and scarf and skin tight pink sequined jeans and 3 tons of make up, and then tell me their are veiled , but I don't appreciate it the passing of judgment on me rabi yihdeek and you were a veil highlander when most of the time I dress in long sleeved jackets long hemmed skirts grey business suits :) that's not fair eh ?

Plus there are other things in our society which should be addressed, i.e. how to improve it and how to add positively to our nation.

Ghazi , hey welcome my friend , glad to see you here again :)
Yes we Libyans are butehga, we latch onto the latest trend then discard it after a while. Ex: all those who veiled in the 80s with black overcoats and niqab took it off to a 'lite' version in the 90s . There is a religious movement here as well but a I said parallel issues are moving on at the same time.

Programmer Craig , glad you liked the post - so I was able to anticipate your questions eh ? is that not scary :P

Nomad what is happening is social upheaval yes, Arabo-Muslim region is trying to find its course in this century , hopefully without foreign intervention ( LoL wishful thinking on my part - mais on ne sait jamais aver l'outre mer eh ? )

Highlander said...

On another note ( off topic ) I'm getting some spam comments about skin care and health etc... despite my word recognition thingy- maybe that's a hidden way of forcing me to move to the beta version ? I don't want to move to the beta version I like this one just fine :)

Non-Blogging said...

Highlander, just publish your picture showing some (halal) perfect skin of yours here, so we all your male readers can start sending hate mail to the spammers telling you don't need any of that stuff ;-).

*hint hint hint*

Anonymous said...


good movie

red_enclave: From Behind Closed Doors said...

Ahh H, after so long, only now I know that you don't wear a headscarf. :)
But I do wonder if you actually dye your hair? Haha..
Anyways, I agree with Lebeeya. I don't think I need to explain in detail there. I believe one should not be a hypocrite. If you wear a veil than act like one. It is important for us not to tarnish ourselves in other people's eyes. As I've mentioned in my posts/comments (I can't remember when), I tend to behave better when I have a veil on my head. That's me, I don't know about other people. It reminds me to be true to my faith & God. I will not preach & ask others to start wearing one, I believe that once you've put it one, one should not take it off in public or whenever one feels like doing so! So only wear it when one is ready. Wearing a veil or a scarf doesn't mean that you are a fanatic, terrorist, etc. It's how you portray yourself to others & the world. Are you approachable? Wearing a veil doesn't mean you are backward @ old-fashion, you could always accessories. One of the most fashionable women I've seen are the Arabs themselves, esp from the Gulf States. I find wearing an all black outfit from head to toe very elegant. Believe me. Black is never dull. It can be very sexy too. The Iranians & Turks know how to make wearing the veil beautiful with whatever you wear. So they are my inspiration, besides ALLAH swt of not taking off my veil.

p/s Life without fashion = boring.
H, it's funny that men, even over here want to showoff their sexy, barely clothed gfs but want a wife who is all covered up!

red_enclave: From Behind Closed Doors said...

(Based on one of comments in the BBC article: this is my opinion & none other)
The issue of having to cover one's face & not covering one's face in Islam, logically those living in Arabia, or arid & dusty places such as in Afghanistan covered their face as they are protecting themselves from the harsh environment. If it is wajib @ compulsory to cover one's face, why aren't the religious teachers covering theirs? Why when we are praying in the house of God, we need not cover our faces?

Curt from Houston said...

By all means Highlander, I'm all for the right of a woman to dress modestly if she so desires. My fear is that once everyone is wearing head scarves, that will cease to be enough and to be considered a "pious" Muslim women, you will have to cover your entire body. Then the full black tent deal with only the eyes visible. Then, don't dare to look anyone in the eye on the street, you'll only encourage the men's natural "urges". Then, no respectable women nneds to drive a car. Then, no respectable women would ever consider leaving her house unescorted by a close male relative. Then, why would a woman need to be educated in anything but domestic matters by her devout mother. Get my drift here?

Curt from Houston said...

Here's an interesting post by the Sandmonkey that I believe touches on this issue. Especially item one.

"

A few weeks ago one of my friends who works in an egyptian newspaper showed me archived copies of Newspapers and magazines 50 years ago. The year was 1956, the year of the Suez War, and the following was reportedly seen to my astonishment:

1) A story of the rising religious teachings in Egyptian mosques, showing a picture of 20 year old guys and girls sitting in a mosque during a religious lesson, side by side, and the girls aren't covering the hair, and are wearing dresses that are showing *gasp* their arms.

2) A Stella beer ad that says "Drink Stella, it's good for your health!"

3) A letter to the editor protesting a poll taken at an egyptian university, that showed that 70% of the people polled said they didn't believe in God and didn't regard religion as important. The letter said the fact that President Nasser called for the resistance to the anglo-franco-israeli agression from the pulpits of mosques and churches showcases the importance of religion in our society. (This in the first time, I think, where God gains credibility by being assciated to a leader, and not vice versa)

4) A news story on how the famous egyptian bellydancer Samia Gammal is volunteering her services to the army, and have been sent to the frontline to entertain the troops.

5) A picture of the other really famous bellydancer, Tahhiya Karyoka, actually planting the egyptian flag in Suez.

Oh, how the times have changed!"


"The year was 1956."

Just so happens that I was born in 1957. How times have indeed changed.

Curt from Houston said...

There is an old saying that goes something like this.

If you throw a frog into a pot of boiling water it will just jump out.

If you place a frog into a pot of temped water and slowly turn up the heat, you'll have frog legs for dinner.

Safia speaks said...

Once - don´t ask me why - I decidd to go out in Tripoli and I wore a blue dress, a yellow speckled jacket and a green head scarv and pink shibshibs. And I was 7 months pregnant!

At one time my husband went inside the mosque and I waited for him outside standing on the pavement. Now, you know what kind of reaction Libyan men have when they catch a woman standing there. However, even though I felt like a living color commercial, not one of them passer bys even shot an eye on me.

Either I was terribly ugly that day, or perhaps it was the scarv?

Curt from Houston said...

Safia, I'm without a doubt that you were absolutely radient in your blue dress, a yellow speckled jacket and a green head scarv and pink shibshibs. Personally, I think that a lady seven months preagnant has a radience all her own. It's one of those great mysterys of life that I'm not sure I will ever fully understand but I believe you would have been just as beuitful if you were wearing drab moo moo with curlers in your hair. By the way, what's a shibshibs?

Curt from Houston said...

Dang, I can see after rereading my post, why a spell checker is a must at four in the morning. Good night all.

Highlander said...

LOL Curt you missed the whole shibsheb topics :) here is the link enjoy and if you want to add your own photo I will post it on my blog for you :)
http://lonehighlander.blogspot.com/2006/08/shebsheb-zanouba-updated-some-of.html

hint at NBA maybe it is time for a sequel to the shebsheb ....

Non-Blogging said...

hint at NBA maybe it is time for a sequel to the shebsheb ....

Yes yes yes, more stuff like that ASAP ;-).

Highlander said...

Redenclave , If it is wajib @ compulsory to cover one's face, why aren't the religious teachers covering theirs? Why when we are praying in the house of God, we need not cover our faces?
exactly it's one of those contradiction created by human's - as you said it does not add up .

Anglo Libyan I think in the UK as well the Libyan women were influenced by their cousins back home , that's why I maintain it is not economic but as a result of the return of the Afghan warriors and the rest of the political situation during the Cold War. Libyan women in London had no shopping problems and most probably not much economic problems either.

Safia :) I think none of the men hit on you , because obviously you were pregnant , therefore taken and pregnant, and second because by being pregnant even though you were standing at a street corner you do not qualify as 'loose' woman because a woman pregnat out of wedlock in Libya would not be flaunting her bump LOL . So you were safe from all predators I guess :)) - that's my theory ..of course you must have looked pretty anyway as Curt says , pregnant women are radiant !

Libyan Warrior( The King Of Al-Andalaus) said...

LW Your post is very long and it contains a lot of points which make total sense.

Thanks. :)

But allow me to disagree on the part about the Africans.

I knew their was a catch. :)

it's not their colour which makes them HIV or HCV positive.

I never said it was their colour, colour is just the way I distinguish them from everyone else. Black=Sub-Saharen=Negro.

Those unfortunate people cross the Sahara because of economic reasons, and yes they have brought in their own social/medical problems into our sparsely populated country.

Wallah Highlander thats not my or any other Libyans problem, their situation can only be blamed on the people who robbed them of their wealth, destroyed all social/economic order in their nations for their benifit. i.e The European Colonist. He Decided to take up the white mans burden, not me. Let him cure these people of the "sickness". Let him embrace his destiny fully. They are half-child, half-devil, in his words, so let him teach the child, and let him tame the devil.


But every human has a brain and a conscience and with that can way what is wrong and what is right , that should be sufficient to guard the good Libyans from fornicating, getting stoned or passing out on bootleg alcohol.

lol. I wish it was that simple highlander,but it hasnt held the good Libyans back.

I know better then to fall to the demons, because I was born and raised in America, with DARE, and the public anouncement people propogate to me 24/7.

All of these things have been in America for a while, so they made sure to educate us about the dangers of AIDS, Drugs, Booze, and all that stuff, but this crap is very new to our wholesome Libya.

Many Guys and girls my age fall pray to this shit, and I for one wont forget about them, people try new shit, people get caught up in things.

You gotta have a human eye when looking at the situation. We cant dismiss the Libyans who get lost in this spiral as "bad" or "Not Good".

Its the Governments job to stop this filth, thats the job of Government to regulate.

We need to have the death penility for the Drug Pushers, and trafficers, like in Indonesia.

i.e good mores and an upright society should prevent us from falling for evil anywhere.

Yes they should, but Good Mores is majorly lacking in Libya. Religion needs to play a more prominante role in ethics, especially amongst the Libyan Males. I am drifting of topic but..

I see a very unfair burden being put on girls, they are expected to act in a perfect manner, while the males are allowed to roam free, and do as they will. Girls are expected to abide by certain set of standards while guys, are given the "boys will be boys" freecard. This is not right, the AIDS rate would drop if Males where thought proper Islamic Values, and if they where expected to abide by them with the same Vigor that Girls are.


But I agree the issue of numerous illegals (or even the legals) should be addressed once and for all.

Yes, I am sorry to say this, I hope I dont come of as a racist, but the best way to take care of this issue is mass deportation of all visable minorities. Libya is a Meditteranian Nation, and thus, well you can figure out the rest.

We Need Immigrants but not from Egypt, Sub-Saharea or, Morrocoo.

I have met quite a few Syrians oddly enough during my last visit. Syrians are nice, we need more Lebs too. What we also need to do is make Libya more attractive, and hence mass deportations of all blacks would be a good way to start.

All I am saying is if we are going to go back to our ancint African roots, lets go back to our Ancient Libyan roots, either that or we stick to Pan-Arabism.

Both identities are deeply rooted in our nation, but to bring people who have nothing incommon with us, people who are clearly forign, well thats not going to go well.

I find your plan to make Libya into Kabyle interesting .

Thanks, it is a intresting plan


Do you think the 6 million would agree to come to Libya and leave their Kabyle (aka tribal) grounds?

hmm.lol. Good Question.
Answer: Hell No.

lol. I was just trying to make the point if you are going to be African do it right. Dont bring in the fat black guy with the momo, bring in the redhaired berber chick from Kabyle, a ancient Libyan to move us to the path of our ancestors? Am I right wasnt that the whole point of Libyas "Africa" phase? Isnt that why we jumped out of the arab league?

Because we wanted our African Identity?

Libyan Warrior( The King Of Al-Andalaus) said...

Redenclave , If it is wajib @ compulsory to cover one's face, why aren't the religious teachers covering theirs? Why when we are praying in the house of God, we need not cover our faces?
exactly it's one of those contradiction created by human's - as you said it does not add up .


Not only that but why would good order men to lower their gaze, if women where wearing a bag over their heads. But in defence of the gulf cultures, the tradition has nothing to do with "oppressing" women. Actually quite the Contrary the Nobel/aristocrat women of these societies in pre-islamic times, veiled from Head to Toe, it was a honarary thing, Slave Women, as Well as common Women where prohibited from dressing in such a manner, it was a sign of the upper class.

even though you were standing at a street corner you do not qualify as 'loose' woman because a woman pregnat out of wedlock in Libya would not be flaunting her bump LOL . So you were safe from all predators I guess :))

LMAO. I would hate to be a pregnant women out of wedlock in Libya.:)

But generally speaking guys dont hit on pregnant chicks, no matter how good they look. :)

I think in the Arab world, people have lost the true meaning of Islam

The Arabs both fell and ran out of the deen of Islam a looooong time ago, i would say the 20's Egypt would be about the time when Islam was Abandoned by the Arab World.

Why do they try to change our view of our culture rather than trying to understand it?

Because they belive their culture is superior, and God choose them to take up the white mans burden and westernize the whole none-western world. And thats why we can never have a relationship with these people.

smokey spice said...

HL and everyone- I apologize in advance for going off topic with this comment. I don't mean to stir things, but I have to comment about something.

LW, you do realize that there are plenty of black libyans, don't you? Are they to be sent of in this Aryan influenced master plan of yours?

Yes, you do sound bigoted, racist, quite frankly...how else to take comment like "fat black shit sniffer in robes from some god forsaken hell hole in negroidia"?

Libya had plenty of a drug problem long before African immigrants were invited.

Do you really think Libyan men haven't 'defiled' Libyan women? Is there a scale somewhere that says defiling by the same ethnicity is somehow better than by others?

Hepatitis and HIV--let me guess, Libyans are disease free? And viruses respect national boundaries (unlike the wars and economic strife that spill over endlessly)?

These diseases are a problem for the entire world. And they spread because people look away thinking it's not their problem until... guess what... they land on the doorstep. It's the nature of disease, homey.

And by the way, Libya's been tampering with other African countries' politics long before the committment to African unity. How could we think that it's not going to come back to us?

Man oh man...I thought this kind of talk was done with my father's generation. Now a new one?

Highlander said...

smokey your comments are always welcome I wish you would do it more .

You are saying a lot of sensible things in here, namely that in Libya we are of various colours, and that we have our own problems not just those influenced by immigrants..