Sunday, December 03, 2006

Middle Eastern Journalists and Visa Woes

I had this post in the pipeline before getting ill so now I’m trying to catch up with the topics I wanted to highlight.

It looks like Middle Eastern journalists are encountering ahem obstacles in getting visas to Europe. I’m wondering why? If you are going to clamour for freedom of speech it looks a bit hypocritical to me … I mean it would be understandable if it was any undemocratic country which was doing this to western journalist, but vice versa it just reflects badly on the country and on Europe as a whole. If they are no longer welcome just tell them to their face. Those are journalists not wannabe jihadis eh?

Check this article by the International Federation of Journalists, excerpts below:

‘During the 1970s and the 1980s the IFJ and other press freedom groups campaigned for an open-door policy that would allow journalists to travel freely to do their work, now they are being forced to do the same in countries that 30 years ago were vociferous critics of closed societies. “Travelling reporters are a threat to no-one,” said White, “but they do provide an opportunity for more informed and better quality journalism in an age when prejudice, stereotype and ignorance tend to dominate the headlines.”’ [read more] .

I do not know if this has been dealt with now.

101 comments:

African Man said...

Democracy and freedom of speach is the western mans lie. This blog postings from certain people has been a testament of it.

Their is more freedom in Tehran then in Washington. At least for Muslims and Arabs. Sorry but thats the truth. If your hair isnt blond, your eyes arent blue, if you dont worship jesus and your arent a jew, then boo hoo, their is no justice for you. Fairly poetic if I do say so my self. :)

To them their is no diffrence between the regular dude and the jihadi.

The journalist is a billion times more dangerouse then the illiterate brain dead idiot known as the "jihadi". The jihadi is laughed of as a idiot by the majority of the masses because while the educated person has the power of controling the masses, he or she has the power of getting them to rally behind them. The Jihadi is a creation by the western man used to conduct mass arrests, and mass murders of the idividual he harbors resentments towards.

Who funds these sick people, who funds their teachers, who builds their heritical schools..... Westerners.

The jihaid serves many purposes.

1. He distorts Islam, and gives a ugly picture of the faith, and thus causing people to flee from it.( This effort has been largley unsuccesful. If anything, like a commenter on sandmonkeys blog said, no promotion is bad promotion. The Quran is out for all to see, the averge person of intelect(which is who we want) will have enough sense to read what the good book has to say.

2. The jihadi teachings hold back progression from society the jihadi teachings cause Muslims to bicker in the sand with sandals, over issues which have no place in common society. So while westerners build nuclear bombs, we bicker about weather a women should show her hands or not.

Now look at the media Jihadis are given the stage and the spot light while the journalist is bared from the county. The western man is biggest fear is for the coloureds, especially those who adhear to the Muslim faith to have the educated people of their socities speak. They bar them from entering their nations and then they have them assasinated in their homelands by their puppets. look at Iraq, not one Single learned Muslim scholar exists, not one scientist, Saddam killed Sunni Intelectualism way before he met the Shia, and who put saddam in power? Easy the Western Man.

You get what I am saying?

We Shouldnt bother with the west. We Should get all of our people out and send them to the east. We should stop the oil coming from our nations to the European man, and sell it to China and Russia, the westerner dare not move with the nukes of China, and India, and Russia facing him and he has no heart to fight a ground war. He does not respect us as human beings and he spits in our face, so we should smile politly and take our buisness else where

African Man said...

Look what he thinks of us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1VdxyCHuRE&eurl=

African Man said...

Check this video out H. We in North Africa need to start uniting with our sub-saharean brothers, to them we are all "niggers" be we white, brown, or black africans. North African, or Sub-Saharean, we are all dead in his plan. This brother Kamau Kambon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0FI82DOuxE

African Man said...

CHECK THIS OUT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc9Tgr_YwcY

Highlander said...

African man , I don't live in the West so maybe you know better , however, allow me to disagree with you on this part at leas :
if you dont worship jesus and your arent a jew, then boo hoo, their is no justice for you.[sic]

I'm not sure religion has anything to do with it because we have Muslims and Jews in the ME and NA don't we ? and I do agree that the jihadis are given more media exposure then the 'normal' Muslims , because that sells maybe ? It's just pure business african man that's what makes the world go run - business . As for cutting the oil , why do you think Iraq was invaded to prevent the rising and fast growing East to get to the oil. Why do you think Darfur is interesting all of sudden ? war has been going on for how long now in Sudan ? no one who counts bothered to stop it until it became a genocide at the convenient time when there are promises of big oil finds and also when the Chinese have made contact. Anyway I'm sure you've read that in the news...

Anonymous said...

I would like to add another new dimension to your comment Highlander, there actually is a new resource that has gained global attention lately, "uranium" actually i know for a fact that Chad has a lot of Uranium in the border region with Libya and it is said Sudan has some in Darfur.
And there is a lot fo attention in Canada on some big export contracts to China of again Uranium.
As oil resources begin to dwindle the developing countries are looking more at nuclear sources of energy at least for domestic electricity It has also been highlighted lately in the UK after the blackout in Germany and a few years ago there was a blackout in Italy. Another factor is fear of Russia using gas as a political tool.

Anonymous said...

Travelling reporters are a threat to no-one

I'm not so sure I agree with that, anymore, Highlander.

In any case, look at the bright side... at least middle-eastern journalists don't get kidnapped in Europe. They just have trouble getting visas. Could be worse!

I suspect "African Man" is just another Pseudonym for LW so I'm not going to respond to any of his nonsense. I love it when bigots complain about bigotry.

Anonymous said...

Dhafer, by the way, would you kindly remove all those insulting comments about westerners and white people by "african man" so that I won't be tempted to respond in kind? Thanks. A rule is a rule and if you let somebody insult, you have to let the victims respond. Highlander, I'm surprised at you for responding to his comments without saying anything about his tone.

Anonymous said...

Here is an article I just googled :), I think it highlights your opinion while noting that Darfur has one of the worlds largest depots of Uranium.
The U.S. Role in Darfur

And I must point out that African man's comments aren't totally wrong its true as you said that their interests are mainly in oil but it isn't just business because they chose to acquire our natural resources and to take advantage of our geographical boundaries (Yemen/Egypt/Arab gulf) through force instead of paying for it like china and Russia have offered. Simply because of their arrogance and blinded racism.
Its true they did the same in south America and north America and everywhere else they went, but we're the target now and coincidentally we are all Muslims so they can use that against us or we can use it against them what do u prefer?

Anonymous said...

Their is more freedom in Tehran then in Washington. At least for Muslims and Arabs. Sorry but thats the truth.

Here is your truth:

Zahra Kazemi

Beaten, raped and tortured to death in Evin prison. For taking pictures of a demonstration against abuses Evin prison. Tragic Irony, wouldn't you say?

Anonymous said...

Simply because of their arrogance and blinded racism.

Highlander, I must object to these insulting blanket accusations and offensive stereotypes!! If you are going to moderate then moderate!!

Anonymous said...

Highlander, don't you have a blog policy on bigotry? If you do, please enforce it. There have been demeaning comments about Christians, Jews, Americans and Europeans in this thread, and racial epithets as well. What's going on?

OK, I'm out of here until you egt your blog under control. I can't handle being abused by people and then having a moderator show up to delete my responses! Best of luck with that. You can e-mail me if you wish, when your blog is worth reading again.

Twosret said...

Journalism in general needs to be reformed, we are sick and tired of people making the news not telling the news.

I'm not surprised that Middle East journalists are having problems to enter Europe, all professions not only Middle Easterns will have problems to enter Europe and the US.

After all the fear that Blair and Bush made sure to implement in the average Brit and American person most Middle Easterns will have problems.

Highlander, I think religion and race has a lot to do with it.

Adam said...

Highlander dear! When will you rejoin the Tandem challenge over at my little place ? I guarantee you an unlimited number of hassle-free entries, no false accusations, no visa required :)

Highlander said...

Anonymous 11.37 , yes I was thinking about the uranium issue as well, who can forget that we had a war because of it not too long ago, so I'm not surprised if there could be uranium in Darfur as well as it does border with Chad if I'm not mistaken.
هل مازلت تتفكر اللغة العربية ؟

Programme_Craig, you're correct about Iran and it's abuse of journaliststs. Thank God the ME press only has visa difficulties in Europe and not worse - yes Middle Easterners must always be grateful when they are not abused I agree 100%.

Twosret, yes journalism has degenerated lately. Countries have a right to keep visitors out, only thing they should be outspoken about it and not hide behind slogans. It is OK if they have a memo hung on the notice board at their respective enbassies saying 'sorry citizen of x country are not permitted to visit Y until further notice" but of course that's bad for their reputation :P

Adam my dear I have not forgotten the story, but I need all my brains to finish it otherwise the serial killer will get me first :) LOL now I'm working with 1/2 a brain only can't you notice :))

African Man said...

I'm not sure religion has anything to do with it because we have Muslims and Jews in the ME and NA don't we ?

Yeah whats your point? What does the ME, and NA, have to do with anything? We are talking about the west.

Religion has more to do with it then race, much, much, more.
Tons of European Muslims are arrrested, beaten, raped, and killed in the name of fighting terrorism. What did they pick them up because they where black? The Western/Christian world arrests tons of Chechynas, Georgians, Dargastanies, Russians, Albanians, Kosavars, Bonsians, Turks, and Western Converts ect. Tons of European Muslims are on no fly lists because they have Muslim names, tons are barred and discriminated from jobs because they have Muslim names in Europe.

In some of the Neo-Inquesition Knights eyes, the euro-muslim is more dangerouse then the other muzzie will ever be.

And its also true being white and european may put you on a higher adavantage when the Christians Knights prepare for the Inquesition. But they by no means save you. As we saw in the 90's.

The European Christian hates everyone who is diffrent. Religion has everything to do with it. Shiks are treated a Billion times better then South Asian Muslims.

Islam intensifies the White Crusaders hatred by 200%, certain combinations of race, color, and national orgin, intensify the burn. Lebonease Christians are loved by the west, they face no discrimination, but their Muslim counter parts are attacked with beer bottles, and chaced by thousands on Anglo/Celts in the streets of Australia.

Also Muslims are open for all sorts of abuse deemed politically correct, turn on the TV, Radio, and Islamophobic remarks are free to reign while outright word like nigger are banned. They hate you more for your Relgion then you race, but they hate you for your race as well. Especially if your black.

Basically like their Religiouse leaders say, a White Christian World.

I'll admit I dont have it worst, because I pass, I will get the persecution when they ask for my Id. I wont be subject to the 50 bullets, the miniute man, or the nazis who walk freely in the street first glance, I am open to the Roodney King ordeal big time. But to state Religion has nothing to do with it is a farse.

As for cutting the oil , why do you think Iraq was invaded to prevent the rising and fast growing East to get to the oil.

That was part of it but religon also has a large role to do with it.

The Mullahs of Jesus Land's Religouse approvement of the military adventure was needed, without their fatwa their would have been no invasion.

Why do you think Darfur is interesting all of sudden ?


I agree with your assesment.

Sudan is Black on Black crime the dispute is over wells, nothing more then a bunch of black people killin other black people. Its pure maddness.

We all know the Euro-Crusaders cold nordic heart doesnt have any sympathy for anyone, in his mind he wins when the "niggers" kill each other, a step closer to a white christian world.

yes I was thinking about the uranium issue as well

No Duh. Actually I dont mean to intensify a already tense situation but that Uranium is historically in white africa, on our southern boarders. So when situations calm down a bit, it may be nice for someone to send troops to protect our property.

p.s send our guys with guns this time. :)

afro-man said...

would you kindly remove all those insulting comments about westerners and white people by "african man"

1. You man the Truths not insults :)

2. african man is white. he can say what ever he wants about people of his own complexion, yet he can never say anything about other peoples complexion, you shall never hear afro-man speak of black or yellow skin in a degrading mannner.

There have been demeaning comments about Christians, Jews, Americans and Europeans

1. I am a American :)

I think thats part of the problem you dont consider us "others" as Americans.

I never demeaned Christians or Jew, or europeans.

I love euros, Ibrahiam Hooper is my role model when I grow up I wanna be just like him. :)

Teddy J. Farris said...

I agree with african man totally.

Afro-Man said...

Here is a picture of those Evil "Arab" racists killing those poor black because of their skin colour. :)

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,640433,00.jpg

http://www.interet-general.info/IMG/Soudan-Mistiria-Janjaweed-5octobre2004-2-12.jpg

http://techpolicy.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/sudan_rebels_2.jpg


WOW. So thats what a Real Pure Arab Supremisist Looks like. Thats like the arab version of the Nordic Super Human. :)

What a crook of shit, these janjaweed give a new meaning to the word black, the way the media twists things people in America think some guys who look like Bashar al-Assad went on a rampage in the name of racial purity, and are killing all black people to attain this objective.

You see this is a perfect example of how they(euro-christians) are attempting to split us up. They tried the same thing between berbers and arabs during the war in Algeria, thankfully the failed, but let it be known their is no greater divider then this cross worshiper from the North.

Now all this being said, the janjaweed if they are truley guilty of a single charge which has been launched against them, then they are mischeif makers, and they must be crucified with their limbs cut of. Sorry thats just the way it is, same goes for hamas, the muslim brotherhood, or any other militia, or group of people who go around spreading mass hysteria, chaos, or disorder.

Curt from Houston said...

"The Jihadi is a creation by the western man used to conduct mass arrests, and mass murders of the idividual he harbors resentments towards."

MMM... Just how are the Jihadis the creation of the Western man? I hardly know where to begin with this particular little piece paranoid fantasy so I won't.

"Who funds these sick people, who funds their teachers, who builds their heritical schools..... Westerners.

No, that would be the Saudis for the most part. Although they seem to get allot of help from the Islamic "charity" machine. Most of which have been shut down in the West for funneling huge sums of money to fun outfits like Al Qaeda, Hamas and Islamic Jihad. And let’s not forget our friends in Tehran either. Most of the rockets currently entertaining the Israelis come from Iran.

"We Shouldnt bother with the west. We Should get all of our people out and send them to the east. We should stop the oil coming from our nations to the European man, and sell it to China and Russia, the westerner dare not move with the nukes of China, and India, and Russia facing him and he has no heart to fight a ground war."

Good Plan! I'm sure the Soviets and Red Chinese will give you all the difference and respect that you deserve. After all, they are both historacally renouned for their gentle dealings with people of different ideologies. By the way, I have this bridge in Brooklyn I could sell ya for really cheap. Interested?

Good grief people, just when I think folks like Highlander are starting to make sense, I read bizarre stuff like this.

One more thing. Myself, like just about all Americans, can't wait until we are off the Middle Eastern oil Teat. Trust me when I tell you, progress is being made in a big way now.

If you think Iraq was all about the oil, think again. To the degree that it was about oil, it was to keep a psycopath like Sadam from profiting from it and furthering his brand of insanity and afterwords, keeping people like Bin Laden getting their hands on it.

But hey, it's your neck of the world. You guys seem to enjoy your local monsters and with the Liberals winning the last election in the US, your likely to have them all to yourselves soon.

Curt from Houston said...

"Anonymous 11.37 , yes I was thinking about the uranium issue as well, who can forget that we had a war because of it not too long ago, so I'm not surprised if there could be uranium in Darfur as well as it does border with Chad if I'm not mistaken."

Highlander, I'm simply disappointed with you here. You appear to be agreeing with these paranoid nut jobs. Have you ever heard of a little invention by US scientist called a breeder reactor?

It basically means that we can manufacture our own nuclear fuel. It was invented more than thirty years ago but unfortunately, after Three Mile Island, (No Radiation Released), and Chernobyl, (Total Disaster From Your Enlightened Soviet Friends), the Greenies in this country made sure that we abandoned our nuclear power program. No comercial nuclear reactor has been built in the US for over twenty years now. That to is likely to change.

Yup, I think that the Middle East's burden of supporting us Western Devils with your precious oil reserves is thankfully coming to an end.

Thak You! Thank You! Thank You!

Curt from Houston said...

Notes on fast breeder reactors:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_breeder_reactor

Curt from Houston said...

"The Jihadi is a creation by the western man used to conduct mass arrests, and mass murders of the idividual he harbors resentments towards."

Highlander. Do you buy into this kind of drivel for even a nano second? If so, maybe I'm reading the wrong blog. I have truely come to like and respect you, but if this is the kind of thing you are willingly ready to entertain, I will probably have to reconsider my opinion of you. This is the kind of thing I hear from the supposadely "Moderate" Muslims when they are interviewed adnosiem in the West. "Yes, the Jihadis are animals but the West has forced them to blow up busses full of innocent men, women and children."

Just what other group in the world is currently doing these sorts of things? By currently, I mean since the Japanese fanatics were flying their planes into our warships during World War II. Yeah, that was a wonderful bunch. Just ask your new friends, the Red Chinese.

Curt from Houston said...

"You see this is a perfect example of how they(euro-christians) are attempting to split us up."

What "euro-christians"? I'm an agnostic and as far as I can tell, Christianity in Europe is finished. Less than twenty percent of Europeans identify themselves as practicing Christians. Some Crusaders they are.

Curt from Houston said...

P Freaking S

You may want to check on when the last Cristian church was built in Saudi Arabia before you lecture us on religious tollerence.

Adam said...

Curt,
... and with the Liberals winning the last election in the US, your likely to have them all to yourselves soon.

:0

So what does that outburst say ? You dislike US democracy ???

Highlander said...

Curt from Houston,

Good grief people, just when I think folks like Highlander are starting to make sense, I read bizarre stuff like this

and
Highlander, I'm simply disappointed with you here. You appear to be agreeing with these paranoid nut jobs.

also
. I have truely come to like and respect you, but if this is the kind of thing you are willingly ready to entertain, I will probably have to reconsider my opinion of you.

Curt where do you see me agreeing? anonymous and I as LIBYANS are reminiscing about OUR war with Chad which WAS about uranium. It's not all about the US always my friend. This was a war in the 80s between two African continguous neighbours, so please calm down and don't jump to conclusions like other readers do.
As for the theory that the West sudden interest in Darfur is not so altruistic well yes why not ? maybe the good folks who send charity are altruistic ( God bless them), but governements ? never- there is always an agenda -as it should be - to look after the interest of their respective countries and people ( nothing wrong in that ).

Maybe you have developped the breeder reactor ( thanks for the link ) and don't need the uranium, but securing the uranium mines/resources especially those which can produce the required isotope for weapon's grade and not just fuel is good to beat the competition or too prevent countries deemed 'unreliable'( to put it mildly ) and who can provide it to terrorists perhaps to get their hands on it.

It's my turn really to not only be surprised, but to use your words 'disappointed', honestly Curt who appointed you my guardian or judge? how come I don't judge you but accept your point of view and discuss it maturely ( I hope :P ). It always strikes me as strange that some readers threaten to leave if they don't hear something that agrees with them on blogs. My opinions are mine and I try to state them clearly. Moreover, comments are written by readers just like you, which does not mean I endorse them, does it ? Maybe you are getting me confused with the other commenters?
You said in a previous comment that you liked this blog because it allowed people like you and Craig to write eh ? well other people are allowed just the same, which let me reiterate again does not necessarily mean that I should agree with them or you. Maybe Dhafer and I should be clearer about the blog policy? The ONLY comments deleted will be those DIRECTLY insulting , bullying , taunting or threatening another reader on a personal basis.

I hope you understood, I would be sorry to loose you as a reader because I too have come to like you and respect you a lot. The ball is in your court. Whatever you choose I hold no hard feelings and wish you all the best.

Afro-Man said...

I wont answer the Texan, his POV on this blog, only prove the points Afro-man has made.

Highlander, do not worry about these bigots, you will ALWAYS have me as a loyal reader, and fan. Viva La Highlander!

P.S America isnt Saudi buddy. America should be neutral. Americans come from all diffrent backgrounds, America should NEVER take sides in any co9nflict in the old world. Denmark has prohibited the Building on all mosques thats their buisness, same for Saudi Arabia, what the east and west does, is their Business, we are AMERICANS, NOT WESTERNERS, NOT EUROPEANS, NOT CHRISTRIANS. We have a god-less secular, melting pot identity and if you dont like it go back home to Europe, you can be racist, christian, and secratarian their.

Curt from Houston said...

"Curt where do you see me agreeing? anonymous and I as LIBYANS are reminiscing about OUR war with Chad which WAS about uranium."

I profusely apologize here Highlander. Rereading the comment I see my mistake. In my defense, I guess I'm just so used to seeing the US blamed for everything from being behind world terrorism,(in this very thread), to the common cold that I just wrongly jumped to the conclusion that this was more of the same.

"It's my turn really to not only be surprised, but to use your words 'disappointed', honestly Curt who appointed you my guardian or judge?"

We all judge people Highlander. It's in our nature. It's actually vital to our survival. I value your take on life and events in the Middle East. I've always "judged" it to be fair and balanced given your perspective. I hope you can understand why I was disappointed when I wrongly thought you were buying into one of the nuttier theories I thought posted here.

By the way, Darfur has been in the news here and we have been trying to get the UN to do something about it for some time now. Where is the UN on this one?

Yes, the US has a vital interest in seeing that the means to produce nuclear weapons does not fall into the hands of the terrorists but I think that those are interests that we share with your country. I doubt that we would have to use any underhanded means to prevent that from happening. I wonder though given recent events in Iran. Do you think that Ahmadinejad will hesitate to use nukes once he has them because I don't. I would really like your take on that one by the way.

As for the Chinese and the oil, I don't trust them any farther than I could throw them. And no, that’s not why we invaded Iraq. When we leave that country, sooner more likely than later, they can sell their oil to who ever they like for what ever price the market will bear. Cozy up to the Chinese at your own peril however. They take a very long view and once they gain their long sought after super power status (only a matter of time); things are probably going to get very interesting.

"You said in a previous comment that you liked this blog because it allowed people like you and Craig to write eh ?"

I still do and I didn't mean that I would stop reading your blog. I would just read it in a different light had you actually agreed with the conspiracy theorists. You have to admit there are some real X-File type whoppers floating around out there about my country.

Once again Highlander. Sorry about the jumping to conclusions.

Curt from Houston said...

"So what does that outburst say ? You dislike US democracy ???"

No, it means that I'm a conservative in case you haven't figured that out and I dislike Liberalism. I think that it is a misguided and dangerous form of Marxism/Socialism.

Curt from Houston said...

"America should NEVER take sides in any co9nflict in the old world."

So you were cool with Hitler? It was looking like free Europe had it's back to the wall around that time.

Curt from Houston said...

"Curt who appointed you my guardian..."

That, Highlander, is something I would never presume. If nothing else, I'm quite sure you can take care of yourself. ;)

Curt from Houston said...

"Denmark has prohibited the Building on all mosques thats their buisness, same for Saudi Arabia, what the east and west does, is their Business, we are AMERICANS, NOT WESTERNERS, NOT EUROPEANS, NOT CHRISTRIANS. We have a god-less secular, melting pot identity and if you dont like it go back home to Europe, you can be racist, christian, and secratarian their."

How many contradictions can YOU fit in one paragraph. I think we have a winner here.

Curt from Houston said...

african man said...

"Democracy and freedom of speach is the western mans lie."

You just gotta love this one!

Adam said...

Curt:
I profusely apologize here Highlander. Rereading the comment I see my mistake.

I take my hat off for that one!

Adam said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Adam said...

And Curt:
No, it means that I'm a conservative in case you haven't figured that out and I dislike Liberalism. I think that it is a misguided and dangerous form of Marxism/Socialism.


You probably disagree but for me that echoes strongly of McCarthy. And for me: all but pleasant.

Highlander said...

Curt from Houston, apology accepted thank you ! I'm glad my own impression :P about you has turned correct and you are the man I thought you were in the first place. Let us hope we will enjoy many more arguments and discussions toghether ...

Curt from Houston said...

"You probably disagree but for me that echoes strongly of McCarthy. And for me: all but pleasant."

Your right Adam, I do disagree. Completely aside from the fact that history and the files revealed after the fall of the USSR prove that McCarthy was exactly correct in his assertions that Washington and Hollywood were riddled with Soviet agents, todays liberalism bears no relationship to the classical liberalism of Jefferson and the other Founding Fathers. It is in fact the home of the neo-Marxists.

Curt from Houston said...

Highlander, my privious post reminded me of a site you just got to see. Check this out and let me know what you think. If nothing else, you have my email address.

http://www.protestwarrior.com/

The videos on this site speak for themselves as to just who the modern left in America represents. Keep in mind that almost all of these videos were taken at left wing protests in the US. Have fun.

Curt from Houston said...

"So what does that outburst say ? You dislike US democracy ???"

Adam, one more thing about this comment. Too many people today think of democracy as an end onto itself. It's not. It's only a vehicle that if exercised by a moral and enlightened people, will lead them to Independance and Liberty. Liberty being the ultimate goal. Remember, it's always easier to vote yourself into slavery than it is into freedom. Therein lies the real danger of democracy.

One definition of morality:

"To do the right thing even when no one is looking."

Curt from Houston said...

In the resent news:

December 03, 2006
Gaza: acid thrown in face of woman dressed "immodestly"

Sharia Alert from Gaza: "Gaza women warned of immodesty," by Khaled Abu Toameh in the Jerusalem Post, with thanks to Schoolraider:

A hitherto unknown group calling itself the Just Swords of Islam issued a warning to Palestinian women in the Gaza Strip over the weekend that they must wear the hijab or face being targeted by the group's members.

In pamphlets distributed in various parts of the Gaza Strip, the group also claimed responsibility for attacks on 12 Internet cafes over the past few days.

The warning was directed primarily against female students in a number of universities and colleges who do not cover their heads in line with Islamic tradition.

The group said its followers last week threw acid at the face of a young woman who was dressed "immodestly" in the center of Gaza City. They also destroyed a car belonging to a young man who was playing his radio tape too loudly.

Addressing female students, the group said: "We will have no mercy on any woman who violates the traditions of Islam and who also hang out in Internet cafes."

According to the group, its members used rocket-propelled grenades to attack 12 Internet cafes and a number of music shops in different parts of the Gaza Strip.

It said the places were targeted because they
were "distracting an entire generation of Palestinians from their duty to worship [Alla] and jihad so that they could serve their Zionist masters and the Crusaders."

Curt from Houston said...

And in other happy news:

Muslims in Pakistan stand up for rapists' rights

More on this story. "Muslims demand rape law reverse," by Bruce Loudon for The Australian, with thanks to Miss Kelly:

ONLY 10 days after Pakistan's military-led Government reformed the country's medieval rape and adultery laws, Islamabad appeared poised for a major backflip on the issue yesterday in an effort to pacify Islamic fundamentalists who have signed a fatwa against the historic changes.

Hardline Pakistani religious leaders have labelled the reforms "un-Islamic, immoral and unconstitutional" and evidence of "Western values infiltrating society".

In response, Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz has authorised the Pakistan Muslim League to negotiate with religious scholars and leaders of the powerful Islamic opposition alliance, the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA), over changes to the rape bill....

Negotiations over the bill follow two days of fury in mosques across the country, with Muslim priests leading attacks on the changes, denouncing them for their "Western values" and attacking those who supported the reforms.

Under the changes, complaints of rape and adultery will be dealt with under the country's civil penal code rather than under an obscure Islamic sharia ruling imposed in 1979 that demands that four male witnesses testify before a rape charge can be proved.

Reports said yesterday that as part of the attempt to curb the gathering campaign against the rape law changes, police and paramilitary forces had ringed the headquarters of the fundamentalist Jamaat-e-Islami party in the Punjab capital of Lahore, where thousands of protesters led by the MMA were gathering to demonstrate against the changes to the legislation.

A leader of the group said: "The MMA remains absolutely committed to stop these changes, and if necessary to bring about a change in the Government."

Curt from Houston said...

Tollerance allert!

Morocco jails German for trying to convert Muslims

Islamic Tolerance Alert from modern, moderate Morocco, where "anyone who employs incitements to shake the faith of a Muslim or to convert him to another religion" will run afoul of the law. The pluralism and tolerance we hear so much about in the West is absent even here -- for Muslims are allowed to proselytize where non-Muslims aren't. From Reuters, with thanks to Twostellas:

RABAT (Reuters) - A Moroccan court jailed a German tourist for six months for attempting to convert Muslims in the southern resort of Agadir, officials said on Wednesday.

The court in Agadir, Morocco's main tourist destination, found the 64-year-old man guilty of trying to "shake the faith of a Muslim," they added.

The court also fined him 500 dirhams ($60) in its verdict issued late on Tuesday.

Court officials named the German of Egyptian origin as Sadek Noshi Yassa, who was arrested last week as he was distributing books and CDs about the Christian faith to young Muslim Moroccans in the street, the officials said.

Under Moroccan law "anyone who employs incitements to shake the faith of a Muslim or to convert him to another religion" can be jailed for up to six months and fined.

The verdict came after local media reports that some Christians had launched a clandestine campaign to convert thousands of Muslim Moroccans to Christianity.

Curt from Houston said...

Womens Lib allert:

Disembowelled and murdered for teaching girls

Sharia Alert from Afghanistan. By Kim Sengupta in the Independent, via the New Zealand Herald (thanks to Kemaste):

GHAZNI - The gunmen came at night to drag Mohammed Halim away from his home, in front of his crying children and his wife begging for mercy.

The 46-year-old schoolteacher tried to reassure his family that he would return safely.

But his life was over.

He was partly disembowelled and then torn apart with his arms and legs tied to motorbikes. The remains were put on display as a warning to others against defying Taleban orders to stop educating girls.

Halim is one of four teachers killed in rapid succession by the Islamists at Ghazni, a strategic point on the routes from Kabul to the south and east which has become the scene of fierce clashes between the Taleban and United States and Afghan forces....

At the village of Qara Bagh, Halim's family is distraught and terrified. His cousin, Ahmed Gul, shook his head. "They killed him like an animal. No, no. We do not kill animals like that. They took away a father and a husband, they had no pity. We are all very worried. Please go now, you see those men standing over there? They are watching. It is dangerous for you, and for us."

Fatima Mustaq, the director of education at Ghazni, has had repeated death threats, the notorious 'night letters'. Her gender, as well as her refusal to send girls home from school, has made her a hate figure for Islamist zealots. "I think they killed him that way to frighten us, otherwise why make a man suffer so much? Mohammed Halim and his family were good friends of ours and we are very, very upset by what has happened. He came to me when the threats first began and asked what he should do. I told him to move somewhere safe. I think he was trying to arrange that when they came and took him."

The threats against Mushtaq also extend to her husband Sayyid Abdul and their eight children. "When the first letters arrived, I tried to hide them from my husband. But then he found the next few. He said we must stand together. We talked, and we decided that we must tell the children, so that they can be prepared. But it is not a good way for them to grow up."

During the Taleban's rule she and her sister ran secret schools for girls at their home. "They found out and raided us. We managed to persuade them that we were only teaching the Koran. But they spied and found out we were teaching algebra. So they came and beat us. Can you imagine, beating someone for teaching algebra."

Yes, I can.

Curt from Houston said...

Yes Highlander, I know I'm spamming, so delete at will. I will not do this again. I'm just trying to make a point.

Anonymous said...

woooah!

t'as réussi à le dresser, il obéit comme un toutou maintenant, eh eh, (t'as de l'avenir comme maîtresse chez les SM) :lol:

Anonymous said...

nomad can u translate so we can enjoy the comment too ?
thanx

Anonymous said...

I'll translate when you'll get homonymous

Ibrahiam Pasha said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Omar Pasha Latas said...

CHRISTIAN BEHEADS DAUGHTER FOR DATING MUSLIM

Faten Habash's father wept as he assured his daughter there would be no more beatings, no more threats to her life and that she was free to marry the man she loved, even if he was a Muslim. All he asked was that Faten return home.

Hassan Habash even gave his word to an emissary from a Bedouin tribe traditionally brought in to mediate in matters of family honour, a commitment regarded as sacrosanct in Palestinian society. But the next weekend, as Faten watched a Boy Scouts parade from the balcony of her Ramallah home, the 22-year-old Christian Palestinian was dragged into the living room and beheaded. Her father was arrested for the murder.

He gave me his word she would not be harmed," said Ibrahim Abu Dahouq, the Bedouin mediator. "He was crying and begging her to come home. They were even telling me that for their daughter to leave their house as a bride would be an honour for them. We never believed that love would lead to death in this ugly way.

Mehmet 2 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Dhafer said...

Curt I left your 'Sharia alert' articles undeleted to demonstrate that they are equivalent to the the topics the Libyan with many names keeps putting up. The latest being 'crusade watch'. These stories from both sides illustrate one thing namely that crazies are eveywhere and do not belong to one religion only . I'm sure we can find something similar with the Jews.

If you are worrying about spam I suggest you use html tags. I noticed that programmer_craig and Adam both do, it also takes less space. In this way readers can go directly to the site and do not need to scroll down interminable posts. This goes for you as well Libyan reader with many names.


To the poster above me that article you posted was totally irrelevant to Highlander's post and to the topic in the comment section. ( An American man kills his girlfriend so what ? )

As for Ibrahim pasha ( the Libyan with many names ), your article would have been a response on the same scale as the point Curt was trying to make if you refrained from insulting prophets, that's why it is deleted too. You must learn to discipline your anger.

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Anonymous said...

on dirait que quelqu'un a décidé de te spamer, un amoureux éconduit ? :lol:

Curt from Houston said...

"Omar Pasha Latas said...

CHRISTIAN BEHEADS DAUGHTER FOR DATING MUSLIM"


Omar Pasha, source please. And if true, this is the sort of crime that makes the death penalty shine rightous in my mind.

"...as Faten watched a Boy Scouts parade from the balcony of her Ramallah home, the 22-year-old Christian Palestinian was dragged into the living room and beheaded."

In my mind, the key words here are "Christian Palestinian". Is it something in the water?

Curt from Houston said...

"To the poster above me that article you posted was totally irrelevant to Highlander's post and to the topic in the comment section. ( An American man kills his girlfriend so what ? )"

Dhafer, This is not off topic. If you want to know why Westerners have developed a healthy weariness off Muslims and thus people from the Middle East, These articles are prime examples. As for an American killing his girlfriend, it may be a crime of passion, but it's not condoned by a large portion of his religious clergy.

Curt from Houston said...

"These stories from both sides illustrate one thing namely that crazies are eveywhere and do not belong to one religion only."

Dhafer, you are correct. There are crazies everywhere. Certainely, we have our Ted Bundies and John Wayne Gacys, but these are lone wolves and not part of a religious movement as illistrated by the articles that I posted above. Islam is in serious trouble and unless people like you and Highlander do something soon to put a leash on the Islamofascists, there most certainely will be another world war. A war that the Islamofascists can't win but one that will claim the lives of millions of good Christians and Muslims alike.

Face it Dhafer, If the Islamonuts get their hands on a nuclear device and succeed in setting it off in an American city, (one of their many stated goals), what do you think our reaction will be?

Curt from Houston said...

"Under the changes, complaints of rape and adultery will be dealt with under the country's civil penal code rather than under an obscure Islamic sharia ruling imposed in 1979 that demands that four male witnesses testify before a rape charge can be proved."

Is this true? Do four men have to witness a women being raped in Islamic law for her to have a case in an Islamic court in some Islamic countries? I've read this now from many sources, Including many Islamic web sites. Please say it's not so. Unfortunatelly, I'll require proof.

Curt from Houston said...

You know what, let me just ask the obvious question here.

What four righteous men would stand around and watch a women be raped?

This is just so simply outrageous in my way of thinking that it makes my blood boil. If I came across a man raping a women, he would be very fortunate to leave the scene alive.

Highlander said...

Curt no those Pakistanis and other Asians ( and no insult intended here) are turning their tribal traditions and incorporating them into Islam.

In Islam four witnesses are required for the proof of adultery ( and not necessarily men). This was decreed so that people cannot bring accusations onto each other left and right, because infidelity and fornication are a serious sin and so the chance that one person actually witnessed the whole action is rare let alone having 4 with material proof. The phylosophy behind it is to stop people from spreading rumours that can damage reputations and can get people in trouble and also because fornication and adultery though damaging to a relationship or honour are actually private matters and cannot be compared to murder or robbery. God wanted the people to evolve beyond their chauvinistic mysoginist attitude, this is even more to protect women. But of course bad men turn everything around and this is what should be fougnt. So we humans put our own ropes and hang each other with them.

Check verses from 1-25 in the Qur'an about this whole issue which does not include rape because rape falls into the crime criteria. here is the link
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/24.htm


check also here the basis for interpretation of the Qu'ran and you can discover that men or institutions or governments in many 'Islamic' countries are using the Sharia Laws according to their own whims and in a self serving manner:

Further evidence that the debtor-creditor situation is an exception to the general rule that the testimony of a woman is equal to that of a man is found in the Quran where in cases of adultery the Quran requires witnesses but is silent on the issue of gender, thereby implying that the gender of the witnesses is irrelevant. "And as for those who accuse chaste women of adultery, and then are unable to produce four witnesses in support of their accusation, flog them with eighty stripes; and ever after refuse to accept from them any testimony -- since it is they, they that are truly depraved." (Quran 24:4). In cases of adultery where one spouse accuses the other, either spouse can swear by God that he or she is telling the truth with the Quran treating each equally. "And as for those who accuse their own wives of adultery, but have no witnesses except themselves, let each of these accusers call God four times to witness that he is indeed telling the truth...But as for the wife, all chastisement shall be averted from her by her calling God four times to witness that he is indeed telling a lie." (Quran 24:6,8).
http://www.mwlusa.org/publications/essays/legalrights.html


In an argument Curt you cannot go to one side and produce material that damns an issue and say this is Islam. It is not , Islam is innocent from the depravities you showed in your examples. It is brought to teach humans to take the evil from their hearts and head God's teaching for mercy , honesty , uprightness, justice etc... What evil men/women do in the name of Islam does not mean that it is condoned by God. People need to stand up to the wrong in the Muslim countries. But you are aware that this is not easy because it is tied down with politics and economy. Imagine for example , Musharraf abolisihing all the rules re. this rape thing in Pakistan to redress the wrong against women in his country. What is the scenario he will have on his hands ? the police will not be immune from punishement for rape and can be prosecuted, the village and tribal elders cannot commit rape to punish a family in their area ( which is a tradition of those tribes nothing to do with Islam or Arabs) the army or security or even his bodyguards will be also punishable .So who will protect President Musharaff? He will have a revolution on his hands by the people and mostly men who are uneducated and certainly can't even read the Qur'an for themselves to know that this is not stated in the Qur'an as their mullah's have been telling them as an excuse. His people will be ready for an uprising because they will think he is transgressing the words of God and that's what they are willing to die for believing they are doing the right thing.

Education is the answer to reform you cannot wipe decades with a clean slate.

My scenario is valid for other countries too where democracy is not available. For example Saudi Arabia , who says that they are the standard by which Islam must be measured ? Because it is the birthplace of the Prophet and there is Mecca ? No of course not. What happens if you try and reform the edicts of their official 'clerics' , you will get women to drive and have equal rights etc... as promulgated by the Qur'an but what does that mean ? it means those clerics do not have the upper hand anymore, nor the special privileges ( economy and power ) because it means they were wrong in the first place, it also means that they will not support the King/ruler in his so called 'right' to rule KSA anymore and therefore people would be clamouring for and encouraging democracy because the King's legitimacy is based on how much he is saying that he is ruling by Sharia and his Islamic credentials. [it has always been like this for centuries you need to go study Arab/Islamic history]. So puff all this vanishes into thin air and him and his extended family and court and the circles around them all have to go. It is in his favour to keep the populace busy with such bickering of obscure documents and silly fatwas about how much of your eyebrows to show and if your toes can show or not or if you can have sex at such and such a time.

Again Education is the solution, just removing the king and his entourage will not help as the vacuum will be filled by taliban look a likes because these are the ones who understood everything and are well organised as their leaders are usually very tech savyy and very educated but their soldiers are recruited from those brainwashed masses.

So basically Muslim countries do have a problem, people like me- and there are many- are aware of this, they are trying to help . People like you ( not you in person)do not hear about it much because that does not sell and so do not search deeper to find out but simply repeat the sensationalist reports as this confirms the misconceptions already held and makes one feel more comfortable into ones thinking that 'look at those Muslims and how Islam is evil etc.. etc..' In this way evil certainly prevails (not the Muslims) and you help diffuse the message of the ignorant and the Islamists.They get free publicity :). Hatred is then fueled even more and there is a vicious cycle from which non of us can get out. You have stated yourself that those people plan to get a nuclear device etc.. Please never equate Islam with fascism . If you want to discuss a topic don't slander the religion, criticise yes but don't use Islamophobic statements. This does not serve to advance an argument it only puts people on the defensive and suspicious.

The fact that you are reading Arab blogs usually to me means one thing that you are interested in understanding ; to some other people it can mean you are gathering data for the government or think tanks on the ME :P .

I prefer to think you are here to learn and understand so please open your heart and continue to do so.

Highlander said...

Nomad :) ouai c'est le petit africain qui me fait la gueule. J'ais arrete d'essayer de comprendre ce mec. Apparament ma fermetee ne marche pas avac lui :P
Tu as une idee pour traiter c'a ?

Anonymous said...

tu lui dis d'aller se faire voir ailleurs, et de revenir quand il aura de la moustache :lol:

difficile de te faire comprendre par les americains, ils n'ont pas la même logique que nous, les vieux mondes ; il faudrait qu'ils entament leur siècle des lumières, mais peut-être qu'ils vont devoir y arriver avec le résultat de leur dernière élection, il semble que leur nouvelle génération ait fait basculer les votes vers plus de consensualité, parce que nourrie au net et a utube, donc plus difficile de leur faire croire n'importe quoi !

Highlander said...

Eh Nomad s'il faut attendre qu'ils entament leurs siecle de lumieres alors la c'a prendrait du temps :P

Quand au p'tit maboule il commence a m'embeter serieusement. Et ma tolerance envers ses compositions sans tete ni queue est dangereusemen pret du zero .. un de ces jours je vais lui dire d'aller se 'outre ailleurs ...

Libyan Warrior( The King Of Al-Andalaus) said...

In Islam four witnesses are required for the proof of adultery ( and not necessarily men).

What exactly does rape have to do with Adultry? Rape is a aggravated crime punishable by death, if the victim kills the rapist then, she should be given a large feast in her honour, if the rapist rapes, her then he is to be crucified for all to see, and his limbs should be severed.

"And as for those who accuse chaste women of adultery, and then are unable to produce four witnesses in support of their accusation, flog them with eighty stripes; and ever after refuse to accept from them any testimony -- since it is they, they that are truly depraved." (Quran 24:4).


But fine lets let the Vermin in Asia have their strange way. What Part of the verse say anything about a chaste man being accused? And a women needing to bring 4 witnesses against the man?

Sorry God doesnt stutter, he is very clear who he is talking to, this verse is for that particular situation, the verses are for womens protection.

If a nice girl, is accused by a filthy dog of being unchaste, and he does not bring his four witnesses, then he is to be given 80 stripes, his word is to be the eqivilant of shit. God Said it best he is truley a depraved individual.

2.

All of this is talk of Public Lewdness, all through the Quran every time adultry or fornication is spoken of, open lewdness and witnesses, pop up. Having 4 people see you shaging is OPEN LEWDENESS.

If you want to fuck thats between you and god, do it in your home, no one can enter without your permission. You may do as you please in your home.( In the eys of the Law). But dont start banging your chick infront of me right on Hollywood Blvd. This isnt ancient rome.

Cases have poped up in the time of the prophet, one in particular where a women came to the prophet, and told him she commited adultry, he told her to go away 3 times. She refused, she could have easily walked away, prayed for forgivness, and most likley she would have got it, but she demanded to be punished, and thus she was stoned to death, and given passage to heaven for her faith.

Omar Pasha, source please. And if true, this is the sort of crime that makes the death penalty shine rightous in my mind.

Okay then, can you explain this to me, why is it when cases such as these happen in the christian community they are shrugged of as " a crazy" who deserves death, but when they happen in the Muslim community they are perfect example of Islam?


but it's not condoned by a large portion of his religious clergy.

Oh and throwing the acid in the face of a poor school girl is condoned by The Quran? You see this is the shit, that just pisses me off, if you think you blood is boiling, dude you should see mine, I will die of a heart attack before I turn 20 and thats a matter of weeks, you people are giving me a stroke.


Again Education is the solution

No Duh?

But you see, H, I dont belive they want education.

They continue to fund the tribal idiots, and build their schools, allow them to come into our countries, and spread their rubbish. You really need to read your history Curt, and study the British involvment in theArabian peninsula, in the 17 century to see the root of the problem.

The British funded and worked with the tribal revivalists to undermine the Caliphate, and his rule. Once the Caliphate fell, and the discovery of oil occured, the Anglos saw this as a prime example to throw Islam into total Chaos, with the Orthodox Muslim leadership put in a deep slumber, the dollars began to flood in Arabia, the visas to the west went to Arabia, the book shops opened up, Arabiastan thus took this oppertunity to ship its tribal garbage from the Philipines to Bosnia.

And even know you still fund them, put them on the news every night, hell even your commishions are in support of them? James Backer anyone?

Why do you think the "Islamists" get free publicity?

They are trying to set the Islamists or Political Ishamilies, as the norm in the Muslim world.

What Must occur:

1. Massive Operation re-education. I think in my opinion Turkey will be on the frontline in this affair.

2. The Invasion of Arabiastan, and well I will be frank, the execution of those who make Mischeif on the land( their Mullahs), the burning down of their schools, the destruction of their literature. Its everywhere H, I encourage all those who see something with a Saudi logo, to burn it immediatly.

If the west was seriose about combating this, they would stop the visas, they would close the bookstores, and they would arrest the Mullahs, and not the innocent everyday average dude. And sense the west is not intrested in stoping this, they are only pushing the christian agenda further, which is the evangelical right's agenda.

Curt from Houston said...

Highlander, I understand and agree with almost every thing you said. Unfortunately, this does not help those of us in the West that are the target of the Muslim fanatics that have clearely perverted your religion. Any attempt by us, as in Iraq is perceived by your fellow Muslims as Crusade. This, I understand. That leaves it to people like yourself to bring about the reformation of Islam. I have read one hart breaking story after another of my brave county men and women that have died in Iraq. I have no desire to see more die if the Iraqis are not ready to fight for their own Liberty. Get back to me if you have an answer.

Curt from Houston said...

"The British funded and worked with the tribal revivalists to undermine the Caliphate, and his rule. Once the Caliphate fell, and the discovery of oil occured, the Anglos saw this as a prime example to throw..."

You may have a point, but that was then and this is now. I wasen't even born then. How do we keep from killing each other today?

Curt from Houston said...

"And sense the west is not intrested in stoping this, they are only pushing the christian agenda further, which is the evangelical right's agenda."

Please sotp being an arse.

Anonymous said...

CH:

"You may have a point, but that was then and this is now. I wasen't even born then. How do we keep from killing each other today?"

Well that wasn't the last attempt after that churchill tried to invade iraq and proposed the use of chemical weapons and then the CIA overthrow a socialist democratic government in iraq installing saddam Hussein's uncle which led him to power u were around then weren't u? and what does iraq have to do with the war on terror saddam was a secular person and the terrorist only came there after u'r men and soldiers invaded it so are we to be blamed for your governments shortsightedness ? I mean u voted for bush twice take it up with him.
As for al-qaeda u created it and funded it to fight the soviet union and all the arab countried faught against them (al-qaeda) ,except saudi arabia which is your proxy in the region, becasue u'r government and that of britian were using the islamic extremist to destabilize our countries and introduce new puppet governments that are more obiediant.
Only when the terrorists came back to bite you did u'r government start to complain .
Do u really think your governments are any different from ours? or they care about your soldiers ?
What do u expect to happen when u invade a country and disband its army allowing it all to rot and go on fire except the ministry of oil?
Then u privatize the oil companies in Iraq when people don't even have water or electricity what impression do u think that leaves?
Last but not least why should we give u the benefit of the doubt it isn't the first time won't be the last if u have good intentions u should prove it because we've seen too many crusades and western backed coup's and wars funded by your governments to trust any more.
P.S. I'm just rebuking your comments i know you already know all of this and your just in denial. Even though your always replying to LW or whatever he chooses to call himself he is a teenager who is watching parts of his region being destroyed for no reason at all (no WMD no terrorist link) so i can excuse him but your pretty old (finished marines in 1989?) so your either one hell of a redneck or the only education u got was in an evangelical church.

Anonymous said...

first off british invasion of Iraq :

British invasion of Iraq

Anonymous said...

How the Americans put Saddam Husseins uncle in power :


> Iraqi coup of 1963

Anonymous said...

Here is a History review of Iraq for marines :


Modern Iraq History

Anonymous said...

"How do we keep from killing each other today?"

Easy stop intervening in our internal affairs and stop trying to control our national resources . Find another source of energy other than our oil.

And by the way what u did with the british in Iraq happened in both Iran and Egypt in exactly the same way and in Libya to a lesser extent while the other arab countries had a sample of it from the French and its still evident today.
And it isn't just about Muslims or arabs we are just the latest episode look at south america the philipines indonesia vietnam india/pakistan/kashmir .

Anonymous said...

Here watch this :

The Power of Nightmares
it will show you how similar you are to the terrorists you despise.

Anonymous said...

I made a mistake i thought the comments were by Craig so i mentioned him being in the marines and confused him with curt which is understandable since their remarks are the same.
I apologise for my mistake :) and my temper.

Anonymous said...

Here is an article written by an american activist on how to defeat terrorism :


Defeating Terrorism


So maybe it isn't just us who think like that?

Curt from Houston said...

"In an argument Curt you cannot go to one side and produce material that damns an issue and say this is Islam. It is not..."

Islam, like Christianity is what it's adherents make of it. I really do hope there is a God out there and that he or she will punish the people that have commited these crimes in his or her name.

Curt from Houston said...

"I made a mistake i thought the comments were by Craig so i mentioned him being in the marines and confused him with curt which is understandable since their remarks are the same.
I apologise for my mistake :) and my temper."


Hey, Creig and I may have similar opiniions on some topics, but we are hardly the same person. I leave that kind of siliness to LW.:)

Curt from Houston said...

"As for al-qaeda u created it and funded it to fight the soviet union and all the arab countried faught against them (al-qaeda) ,except saudi arabia which is your proxy in the region, becasue u'r government and that of britian were using the islamic extremist to destabilize our countries and introduce new puppet governments that are more obiediant.
Only when the terrorists came back to bite you did u'r government start to complain ."


True, we did help the Mujahadine (Army of God?) against the Soviets. You can't always pick and choose who your allies are in a life and death struggle. As for the Saudis, you might say that they currently have us over an oil barrel. They are not however, "our proxies". We are currently engaged in an all out effort to remedy that situation.

Curt from Houston said...

"...the CIA overthrow a socialist democratic government in iraq...

Weather true or not, "Socialist Democratic" is a classic contradiction in terms and should never be used since one nullifies the other.

Curt from Houston said...

"They continue to fund the tribal idiots, and build their schools, allow them to come into our countries, and spread their rubbish."

If you mean by, "funding" ,buying their oil, your right, we need to get off the Saudi Oil teat. I am also all for closing down their madrassas. Being a Westerner means that until 9/11, I was largely ignorant of Islam. I must say however, the more I learn of today's Islam, the less I like it.

Curt from Houston said...

"But you see, H, I dont belive they want education."

Please talk to the Taliban about their view of education. It appears to only involve men and the Quran.

Curt from Houston said...

"Easy stop intervening in our internal affairs and stop trying to control our national resources . Find another source of energy other than our oil."

I'm all for not intervening in your internal affairs as long as you are not flying planes into our buildings. As for the oil, I agree there also. You can sell it to the Chinese and see how well they treat you. Or you can not sell it at all and go back to herding goats for all I care. Without the oil, the entire Middle East has the gross domestic product of Switzerland.

Curt from Houston said...

"I heard William Bennett on CNN, eulogizing Jean Kirkpatrick. He referred to her as the GOP's Thatcher and called her "our Iron Lady." What is it about these people that they can never talk of peace? (Even their women have to come across like Vince Lombardi.) They can never talk of US accountability in the Middle East.
" Anonymous said...

Here is an article written by an american activist on how to defeat terrorism :"


How year upon year of ill-conceived, poorly executed US policy, from both Democrats and Republicans, has created the staggering level of ill-will we are now treated to in the Muslim world. How this administration's war plan was merely the match that touched a pool of gasoline laid down by more that thirty years of bad decisions by our government.


This is pure BS. While there is plenty of blame to go around between Dems and Repubis, Radical Islam is not one of the things you can lay at the feet of Americans.

Anonymous said...

"We are currently engaged in an all out effort to remedy that situation"

Which situation ? the taliban ? or the islamic extremists you left in afghanistan ? Do u think just because you run away from a problem you aren't responsible for its repercussions?

""Socialist Democratic" is a classic contradiction in terms and should never be used since one nullifies the other"

Do u mean that democracy can only exist in a capitalist system? You have to know that after world war 2 all the arab countries were completely destroyed by the wars faught out there by both the allies and the nazi's/italians and only an economical socialist system could bring back any form of viable economy and they weren't communist but not as capitalist as the US something close to France/UK

"I'm all for not intervening in your internal affairs as long as you are not flying planes into our buildings. As for the oil, I agree there also. You can sell it to the Chinese and see how well they treat you. Or you can not sell it at all and go back to herding goats for all I care. Without the oil, the entire Middle East has the gross domestic product of Switzerland"

The planes came in 2001, you've been there long before it and the british and french since the 19th century.
As for our economy, switzerland and the rest of the west wouldn't have an economy if it wasn't for our oil. What is the industrial revolution isn't it the utilization of oil in mass production? Can you explain how a barrel of coke is cheaper than a barrel of OIL? If our national resource aren't being exploited ?

"Radical Islam is not one of the things you can lay at the feet of Americans"

I didn't lay at your feet the articles author did which gives it a lot of credit since he is american. As for radical forms of religion they exist in every religion and islam is no different but radical muslims weren't given a voice or audience in the middle east at all until they were invited to afghanistan by you know who?
there they were trained armed funded further radicalized and left to mold.
Do you know who first issued an arrest warrant for osama bin laden? it was Libya, what happened was he apprehended ? arrested? no nothing was done he was used against the saudi's and egyptians and Libyans. Then when he got out of hand in 2001 thats when u woke up and now you want to through your shit on us ?
Do u know why Libya was given an audience after 2001 and the head of the Libyan intelligence was allowed into the UK and France even though there were arrest warrants against him? because al-qaeda duped your government and when u found out you were being fucked you came back crying to us for intel on the scumbags you thought were sheep herders and who out smarted you .
Can u explain to me why Bush canceled the office in the CIA responsible for the capture of Osama bin Laden if your fighting terrorism as you say ? its because he poses no real threat now that you've isolated him financially so why didn't you do it in 1996 when an arrest warrant was issued? Why is only today that your country and Britain have started handing back extremists to their original countries ? because they don't need them anymore, they have 9/11 to blackmail our countries with, they don't need a group of exiles refugees or dissidents anymore all the muslims are terrorists now and that gives them public support to attack any country they want.

Finally, I will take your comment on not liking Islam as a complement for that only shows how good it is for not accepting somebody like you.

Anonymous said...

Here is an article printed before 9/11 criticizing the bush administration for its dealings with the taliban :


taliban in US


and this is one exposing all their dealings and who they met with (enron unocal) the whole bunch of oil cronies.

enron unocal partner with taliban

So again what does islam or at the least middle eastern muslims have to do with your oil contracts ? or why should we have to take the fall for a contract gone bad?

Anonymous said...

"a barrel of coke is cheaper than a barrel of OIL"

I meant more expensive

Highlander said...

Anonymous , yabni how many times do i have to ask you to email me ....


Curt : Any attempt by us, as in Iraq is perceived by your fellow Muslims as Crusade. This, I understand. That leaves it to people like yourself to bring about the reformation of Islam. I have read one hart breaking story after another of my brave county men and women that have died in Iraq. I have no desire to see more die if the Iraqis are not ready to fight for their own Liberty. Get back to me if you have an answer.

Curt I 'm afraid the bit about Iraq 2003 was never an attempt by the US to help, I won't go in the detail of how it started but basically it was all about US perceived national interest ( understandable) and not a crusade despite the unfortunate freudian slip by the President.I am deeply saddened that your countrymen of all colours are dying tragically there.
The Iraqis have quadruple the number of tragic stories to tell where the bad guys are Iraqis ( of all types) , Arabs and occupation forces. Those Iraqis are now experiencing the avalanche effect. Can't be stopped anymore too late :( , and even if the US mission statement has changed now most cannot see it, because the occupation forces look so aloof , heavily armed and unreachable and not like a democracy/ freedom teaching peaceful organisation.
How do you want Iraqis to fight for their freedom when they can 't even buy bread and be sure they will survive ? I think with one less source of worry in their environment it would be easier for them to get back their liberty. If they did not have to worry about a foreign army, they could settle their scores against each other and fight for their freedom. That's my take on it. Unfortunately , too late for anything else and it would be useless anyway.

How do we keep from killing each other today?

We talk to each other and establish sincere friendships , we visit each other, with don't blacklist each other, or sanction each to make each other suffer. We try to be less self centred about ourself and teach our children about each other, and we both practice humility.None of us has the exclusiveness on being right. We stop the trail of vengence and we try to put ourselves in the others shoe and stop listening to the lunatics who pretend to speak on behalf of us, stop the chain of accusation and start remembering that we are not in the playground at school anymore where the bell can end the disaster but that this is the real world and that action = reaction even if the effect is delayed. I hope this is not wishful thinking.

I also had fun reading the website 'protest warrior' which you linked to , did not look at the videos but read some of the articles, and indeed it is very clever site.To me both the left and the right represent the same thing when they get to power , the policy may differ within the States but does not change except in a few details in the 'third world'. What I may like about the protest warrior gang is that at least they are clear about their aims and goals unlike the leftist gang. So thanks I am going to enjoy this website and learn from them a few tricks I hope.

I highly recommend this article to LW,
http://hq.protestwarrior.com/?page=/featured/PHS/PHS.php

Please read it carefully and learn how the 18 year old kid won his arguments . The most important is to be :

[1. Be aware of your rights,
2.Keep it cool ( i.e be polite and so annoy them even more )
3. Be ANNOYING
4. Don't make it easy on your enemy
5. Know your stuff ]

LW if your comments from now on can be framed within those guidelines, some might even end up on the Highlander comment of the month post. What do you think , but if you lapse once there is no deal. So can I bet on you or not ?

PS 1-5 is like hearing my parents advice me when I was a child, especially the bit about always being polite and cool, as your enemies can then never find anything to fault you by.

Adam said...

"How do you want Iraqis to fight for their freedom when they can 't even buy bread and be sure they will survive ? "

Brilliant Highlander! I felt it deserved emphasizing!

Twosret said...

Curt,

I have one comment and it is an honest sencere one to you. Why is it that you think that the oweness is on muslims to reform,inform,and educate you.

What about you dig and learn and educate yourself? I lived in many countries where terms like "pamper yourself" is unheard off. The average American have a much better access to all information, education , and exposure anyone can get.

You ask the Iraqis to liberate themselves after million children died due to the UN sanctions, after it has been bombed non-stop and after an unjust war that killed so many civilians.

Let me ask you this. Why don't the average American stand up for the current administration after it wasted trillion of dollars on a big fat lie?. Why don't they impeach Bush and Co. for a war that is costing us our youth soldiers that are dying in vein and our hard working tax dollars.

Curt from Houston said...

I have one comment and it is an honest sencere one to you. Why is it that you think that the oweness is on muslims to reform,inform,and educate you.

Twosret, the simple answer here is I don't. It's up to us to inform and educate ourselves. A task that is ongoing with me.

As for the reform part, that was directed at the Islamic faith itself and by definition, can only be accomplished from within.

The following will give you some idea of the websites that are out there monitoring Islamic radicalism or that I use to continue my education on things Islamic.

http://jihadwatch.org/

http://jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/

http://www.islam101.com/

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

http://www.danielpipes.org/

http://www.sandmonkeyblog.com/

http://www.sabbah.biz/mt/

And of course, last but certainely not least:

http://lonehighlander.blogspot.com/

These are just some of my favorites.

Curt from Houston said...

The Iraqis have quadruple the number of tragic stories to tell where the bad guys are Iraqis ( of all types) , Arabs and occupation forces. Those Iraqis are now experiencing the avalanche effect. Can't be stopped anymore too late...

Unfortunately, I think that you may be right here Highlander. I believe that at this point the best thing that we can do is train up the Iraqi security forces as quickly as possible and get out.
It's beginning to look more and more like they are just going to have to fight it out amongst themselves.

The sad part about this is that most of the educated Iraqis are already getting ready to flee the country if they can if they haven't already done so. That is probably the best indication that a good outcome is not possible for this country. It will most likely fall into an Islamic Theocracy as bad as or worse than the one in Iran. If the tiny Christian minority had any sense, they would be applying for asylum in some Western country right about now.

Curt from Houston said...

"I won't go in the detail of how it started but basically it was all about US perceived national interest ( understandable) and not a crusade despite the unfortunate freudian slip by the President."

Of course it was in our perceived national interest Highlander. It was in our perceived national interest to have a secure, stable, and democratic Iraq as an ally in the region. Sadly, that turns out to have been a laughable pipe dream. At this point, what we’re probably going to get is a clone and puppet state of Iran as stated above. But hey, at least we tried.

Curt from Houston said...

"Please never equate Islam with fascism . If you want to discuss a topic don't slander the religion, criticise yes but don't use Islamophobic statements."

Highlander, I do respect your sentiment here so let me clarify exactly what I mean by "Islamofascism". I am referring to those people who are Fascists and are using the religion of Islam to further their tyrannical agenda. As you yourself stated above, that’s exactly whets going on. I do not mean to imply the Islam itself as practiced by the majority of Muslims today is fascistic.

There is however a growing Islamofascistic movement all around the globe that is just as frightening as the rise of the Third Reich in the 1930s. In countries that fall under this stain, people like you are simply killed if they speak out. That’s what we’re seeing in Iraq today, and that’s what you will see in Libya if you allow these people to get a foothold. The growing popularity of the Hajib in Libya is a disturbing trend despite your opinion that it is simply a personal choice. I believe it’s more a case of the camel’s nose being already under the tent. That is an ancient Arab saying, is it not?

I also understand what you’re saying about the rulers of Packistan and Saudi Arabia. Unfortunately it's already too late for them. It's only a matter of time before the Islamofascists take complete control of those countries. Appeasing the mullahs will only strengthen them and accelerate the downfall.

Curt from Houston said...

Highlander, one more must read blig with great pictures:

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/

While chilling at times, it's very insightful.

Curt from Houston said...

Ha! blig=blog

Although bligs are probably fun to. :)

Maya M said...

I would dispute the statement that "Travelling reporters are a threat to no-one".
Ahmed Shah Masoud was killed by men pretending to be journalists (e.g. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/DI12Ag02.html).