My brother sent me this photo , I thought it was so good from an artistic point of view and in the context of recent world upheavals that I could not resist sharing this gem with you.
I also showed it to my dad and he suggested the ladies may need to hold a sign so that their family recognises them he is still laughing especially at the pose the gentleman is striking and so seriously trying to put them all in the same frame. I'm wondering who took this photo ? My guess this is in Downtown Beirut, and probably a Libyan guy sitting at one of the cafes there .
On another note my neighbour just returned from Umra with his mother and sisters. During his stay there he became all pro- this sort of thing under the influence of the Saudi women , for whom this dress is a way of life. I must admit that his womenfolk were all very excited too and wore these clothes before he had even shown an inclination to it .
A few days later they were shopping and he put his hand on the shoulder of one of them and asked her " Mabrouka, what do you think of this watch for your father? " Only to hear " Take your filthy hand off me you immoral young man ! what do you think you're doing , wait till I tell my husband he will make you wish you never went out of your house, ya Isma3in zawedlah !" .
Surprise it was not his sister Mabrouka ( who was two rows away), but another shopper at the same mall . When he resolved the misunderstanding with Isma3in , hee immediately suggested to his female family to 'please' take those black clothes off including the niqab, "I can't even recognise my own sister , this is too embarrassing ".
I have full respect for hijabi women and their difficult choice as the hijab needs a lot of righteousness and self-discipline to be upheld ; but THIS is ridiculous.
No comment
99 comments:
you are absolutely right, this picture was taken in Beirut and its sold over there as a funny postcard, my cousin sent me this picture from Beirut months ago and told me that its not real but one of some pictures used as funny post cards.
In Britin at the moment there is a big row about Niqab, I do not support it (niqab), its rediculous and a security issue, as u made it clear, how can anybody tell who that woman (if it is a woman) is?
A very funny picture about a very serious issue. In Libya Hijab and Niqab wasn't a normal thing to see. It started to infiltrate the society in the mid 8o's, becoming wide spread in the 90's. I believe that hijab is way of expressing insecurity and inconfidence of women and men in general. Some women use it as a tool to express their fear to face the society with what they really are, while some men use it as a way to oppress and feel dominant over other group of people in the society.
I believe that hijab and especially niqab is not a religious dress code, in fact it is the traditions and costumes of a certain society that makes it part of the teaching of the religion.
Niqab is a way to degrade and ridicule women, we are in dire need to discuss the issue in a civil way, but importing other society’s costumes is not the best way to do it.
Ghazi
Yeah well this pic is sort funny, even if it reminds us of rather sad issues. I have no problem whatsoever with the headscarves (unlike some!) but these things i feel quite uncomfortable about...
Yes I think i agree with anglolibyan that it was probably a mock photograph for postcards, because most people who wear niqab don't take pictures.
lol. I would would like to say KUDOS FOR YOU ghazi finally a fellow berber on the blog.
Umm well at least they didnt cover their hands.:)
have you already read Ahdaf soueif "the language of the veil"?it was published in her last book Mezzaterra. Or you could go to the following link: htpp://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,614360,00.html. It's a point of view.
?????????????
I've seen this pic in another blog. funny...but I guess it was photoshopped. The guy was taking a pic of this lady sitting at the a table close by instead of the veiled ones! ;P Be sure to check next time you ask someone to take a pic of you & your family....haha
p/s : How am I to persuade you to move to WordPress?
funny, i've seen it before and didnt know whether it was a pose or for real, i guess it was a mick take.
even though i'm not an advocate of niqab and i find it difficult to understand the want for wearing it, i still believe that a woman has the choice to wear it or not and should be respected for her descion as long as its not forced onto others.
How can you joke about such a serious issue? I am outraged.
Here is my contribution to the debate:
http://shlemazl.blogspot.com/2006/10/skill-of-protesting.html
Highlander, I don't understand why you "have full respect for hijabi women and their difficult choice". As far as I know, at best, they face "a difficult choice" because some man claiming to know a lot about Islam has told them that if they wrap their heads, they'll "collect scores" in God's eyes, to enter Paradise. I dislike all believers (not only Muslims) who dismiss the pleasures, risks and compassions of this world in hopes of Paradise. They have fish's hearts and, accordingly, are boring and unpleasant. Worse, they are unreliable. They'll stab you in the back at the moment they decide it's good for their scores.
I absolutely agree with AngloLibyan. I remember a case in Britain when the abductors and killers of a small boy were caught after being recorded by a supermarket security camera. Now, every pedophile can dress like a bag and go abducting children, fearing no cameras, because some mothers blackmail the society to accept their bag-like gear as freedom of faith. It's crazy.
Ghazi's testimony sounds grave, especially when I compare it to the writings of some Egyptian bloggers and a recent discussion on Leilouta's blog (http://leilouta.blogspot.com/2006/10/extreme-clothing_18.html). I initially sided with Leilouta, but Massir convinced me. So all eyewitnesses say the same for different Maghreb and Mideast countries: there used to be virtually no hijabs, they are now prevailing, niqabs follow, we fear what more is to come.
I used to be in favour of personal freedom and, although I wondered at veiled women, I didn't pay too much attention to them - no more than to teenagers with pierced eyebrows. As White African says, "a woman has the choice to wear it or not and should be respected for her descion as long as its not forced onto others." But the trouble is that it's forced onto others. Those black bags and even the more innocent-looking hijabs are like the innocent-looking small fish that signal danger, because there is invariably some shark behind them. E.g. a cleric encouraging good Muslim boys to rape unveiled women.
Remember the mother of a London bomber who objected that he was a bomber, claiming he was just one of the victims? It must be indeed a terrible shock for any mother, first to lose her dear boy in a mass murder and then to hear he was the murderer. But what values had she taught them? At a photo from his childhood, she was hijabbed. And after the event, speaking before the cameras, she had a niqab. If somebody asks me to say how I imagine a terrorist's mother, I'd answer - veiled. Perhaps I'm not just, but it seems to me that where you have veils, you have bombs as well.
Perhaps I'm not just, but it seems to me that where you have veils, you have bombs as well.
I am wonder Maya did the European Colonists who slaughter the Hundereds of Millions of Africans and Asian wear headscarfs, did the Euro-Americans who dropped the Nukes on Japan wear headscarfs, did the Euro-Americans who Butchered the population of Vietnam wear headscarfs, did the Serbs wear head scarfs or was it those Muslim women who they slaughtered by the thousands the ones who weared headscarfs, did the Euro-Americans who called African Americans Niggers, and lynched them for being dark skinned wear headscarfs? Just a question.:)
And yes your statement is unjust, it is so unjust its almost unbareable.
did the Euro-Americans who called African Americans Niggers
Last time I saw you on Sandmonkey's blog, you were calling Egyptians niggers, buddy. As I recall, some of them wanted to kill you dead and invade Libya by the time you made a run for it :P
This poto remind me on Alzwawyi Drowing ,when that libyan women wear AlfRashiah and everyone of them show a paper wrote her name on it.
sometimes i wandering how they re so relagion and wear NQab or Khmar and belive on taking photes to themselvies...!!!??
i mean to humen..bodies...!!?
becoues i know the relgion people dont` belive on photos...!
any way have a nice day.
As I recall, some of them wanted to kill you dead and invade Libya by the time you made a run for it :P
lol. Those little people are no match for me, or my might nation. I recollect one of them claimed he was going to nuke us, my response was with what, the toxic gases that comes out of Momos ass after he is done with a plate of Foul.lol.
As far as invading my country. Yeah right, these people live in graveyards and give their daugthers clit-o-INFECT-me's. What a dirty filthy uneducated population. In the history of the world it was always the Libyans who invaded egypt and ruled over the egyptian throwbacks. The accounts are their. It was a Libyan who got those people off their asses and got them building pyrimids, the crap about the first libyan coming to Egypt and ruling in the 21 Dynasty is a crook of shit. Their are earlier accounts of the white African in Egypt.
Also Might I add, I personally belive a great crime has been commited against the Indigonous Libyan peoples by the Foul eaters from the east. Below is a map of all the land which the Indigonous Libu peoples are Indigonous to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Herodotus.jpeg
All of this land has always belong to the Libyan people, the Libyan/Cyrenaican race.
Look I think their should be a UN Resoloution passed to get Egypt to give up what they have stolen from us. This is a great crime in the day of Freedom and Nationhood, a great crime has been commited against the Libu peoples. A great crime that must be corrected as soon as Possible. I propose that the Egyptian people return that which belongs to the white african, and i propose that the egyptian people, and the egyptian nation, pay massive re-inbursments to the Nation of libya, as well to the Berber communities in Algeria, The riffians in Morroco, and in Tunisia.
I also would urge the Egyptian government to put regulation on Anti-Arab hate speach by its troublesome, non-law abiding coptic citzens. Anti-Semetism should not be tolerated in this day and age.
I would also like the return of all historical artifacts stolen by the Egyptian people to be returned to Libya, and I would also like the Western countries which are also perpatrating some of these acts to also return any property whoich they have stolen.
I would also like a monument built in honour of Simon of Cyrene in the holy land. The Israeli Government should fund it. I would also like wages to be I will accept them on behalf of Simon, that cross was heavy. I shall think of more, and I shall return but I have a physics exam, so until next time:)
The Arabs and the Arabs are always a mined words victim
And when we hear about the backwardness we hear only the Arabs and the Arabs and as if it catches only the Arabs alone ..
Subhan allah..
lovely I agree, 100%. If people only knew the sort of backwardness we have here in America, the sort of religouse insanity which plagues the US government.
Here check these links out.
http://www.godhatesfags.com
Here this comment is by a highly respected deeply embeded Christian Preacher in the US government he gave the evangelical fatwa to attack Lebonan and Iraq, without him it would have never passed.
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."
If a Mullah said this the Tunisian would piss her pants.
I would also like to state that not only must the worshiper of wahhabi be abolished, the Christian preachers of hate and their followers must also be abolished. That means Pat Roberstson, all the preachers, and the Evangelical Religion as well. This perverted faith is violent, mysogonistic, throwback, evil, racist, ahteful, and gencocidal as well. I am sorry to say this but it is true. The Bible both old and New Testament needs to be burned, abolished, or it must be censored for offensive content which calls for the death of all thsoe who do not follow it. The content which preaches barbaic tratement of women, and calls them losses must be abolished, the laws which state that a women must be killed if she is raped, and that the rapsit must pay her father 5 peices of bronze, the laws which call for the death of animals, gays, and other non-social conformists must be abolished.
LW, back to business as usual, aren't you? You won't forget soon that I first provoked you to write that comment, then read it.
Anyway, who has told you that Bosnian women wear headscarves? On some holiday, you can go there and try to convince them to wrap their heads in those debilitating pieces of cloth. Wish to see the reaction.
who has told you that Bosnian women wear headscarves
Their are Bosnian Girls here, actually one two chairs down from me who wear headscarfs .
From this I made the logical conclusion that Bosnian Women wear headscarfs. From photos I have seen that even the Christian women wear headscarfs I think it is a Jewish Custom brought into Eastern Europe. I have never really taken the time to do the research but I am sure its some un-islamic custom or idea, probably has some pagan roots, like many things in Modern Day organized religion. In anycase, have a great day, I shall return, but for know I must skidatatle.
-Shalom
-The Mullah of The Small Rainbow trolls of Atlantis.
I've never been in Bosnia, but of course I've watched a lot of TV news about Bosnia and never seen women with headscarves, except the old women, for whom it's traditional and has no religious meaning. Just before I wrote my last comment, I launched Google Image Search for Bosnian women - again, no headscarves for young and middle-aged women.
However, I have no reason to doubt what you are saying. So even Bosnia, the European, multicultural Bosnia is succumbing. Bad business.
"Christian preachers of hate and their followers must also be abolished."
Hey Mahmoud, care to point me to the news story about the last southern Baptist that blew himself up on a bus full of innocent civilians? By the way, you may want to familiarize your self with a little publication called the "New Testament".
I'm certainly no big proponent of organized religion by any stretch of the imagination. But to compare modern Christianity to modern Islam in the violence department is really not a good idea.
Ghazi, I'm with you. When I was a boy in the early sixties, it was still very common for American women to wear head scarves. But that was on windy or rainy days to keep their hairdos from getting messed up.
Wearing those black tents to me is just plain creepy if not openly anti-social and hostile. It tells me that these women don't trust their men to behave in a civilized manner.
If you read about the recent rape riot that occurred in Egypt on Sand Monkey's blog, you get a feel for the kind of mentality that permeates this culture of sexual repression.
If a man can't be trusted to look a woman in the eyes, he can't be trusted. Period!
If the sight of a woman in jeans and a T-shirt turns him into a slavering beast, what does that say about his society?
If the sight of a woman in jeans and a T-shirt turns him into a slavering beast, what does that say about his society?
My God America is the Rape and Murder capital of the world turn on the TV any night. What does that say about your society. This double standard stuff has got to stop. This is insane.
"My God America is the Rape and Murder capital of the world turn on the TV any night. What does that say about your society. This double standard stuff has got to stop. This is insane."
Man, you got to stop watching so many Hollywood movies and get a grip on reality. There are three hundred million of us for crying out loud! The American press invented sensationalism. Every foul deed is trumpeted from the highest mountain tops for ratings.
Things that pass for business as usual eslewhere are portrayed as crimes against humanity by the press here! Do you think that this may have something to do with your impression of the US? Trust me when I say that you are far safer in the streets of Houston than the streets of virtually any Middle Eastern country. Especially if you are a non-Muslim.
"My God America is the Rape and Murder capital of the world..."
You have read about what the Sunni and Shia are doing to each other in Iraq recently haven't you? Oh yeah, I forgot, that's all America's fault to. We never should have interfered with Sadam's gentle reign of terror.
Curt
Dude I was born and raised here. You are not fooling anyone, everynight, every single night a new girl, raped, and found dead on the highway, the murders every single day i find it sickening that you would pick and prod at isolated incidents in the Middle East when your country is so full of shit, its coming out from its ears. The Rapes are stagering the Murders are stagering. The Perverts the pedophiles are every where, the amber alerts are 24/7, the schools have POLICE, can you belive it what kind of society is this. Dont even speak about the middle east. Seriolsy they are a billion timkes more wholesome and family oriented and women friendly then american society. Go to the women shelters and see for yourself. Go to plan parenthood and see for yourself, the horrors are a dime a billion. Dont claim that men in the middle east do not know how t treat women, when the Domestic Abuses cases in the US are coming out the roof. You are a racist, and a Bigot, and a stupid one at that, I could understand if you came from some small European nation no one ever heard of you can play the White Mans Burden I am Superior card but you are from houston TX the Murder rate went up 20% since last year. And I wonder what religion are the perps, hmm. i can pretty much gaurante its not the Arab-American muslim family, most likely its a Black or Hispanic with a large cross around their neck.
Continuation
who is the perpertrator of these crimes.
As far as the President Of Iraq is concerned, yes you should keep you nopse out of peoples buisness, what brings america to the Middle East. Why are you investing in our countries, why are you pouring our oil in your cars, why are you meddling in our affairs with our Jewish Brothers. I mean what business does a Nation in the Americas have in the affairs of The Middle Easterners?
"As far as the President Of Iraq is concerned, yes you should keep you nopse out of peoples buisness..."
Yes, I believe that we are now learning that lesson the hard way. We should have never let ourselves become dependent on Middle Eastern oil. In case you haven't noticed, we are rapidely remedying that situation.
www.religionofpeace.com
I personally believe that Islam and the rest of the world should completely seperate. Sort of like in Star Trek's Prime Directive where we don't interfere with primitive cultures. Believers in the Religion of Peace living in the West should Immediately relocate themselves to the Islamic Paradise of their choice. Problem solved.
"Why are you investing in our countries...
I've often wondered that myself.
What does Islam have to do with Honour Killings? Honour Killings are just as prevelent in Coptic Christian Communities, and Arab Christian communities. If anything one would say it is a custom prevelent to South-West Asia.
But in anycase, that just proves your ignorance of Islam, and Geo-politics.
But I shall dumb myself down to get on a intelectual level so you can understand me better.
CRIMES OF PASSION
You know when a big bubba like you walks in on his wife Bertha banging Jimmy Ray from the trailor park 2 Miles down, and you decide to go and kill Bertha, and quote the bible stating it is your rght under the Law of the prophets. :) Its hapened tons of times in the South, and usually gets covered up in the rural areas where Christian Fundamentilism is practiced. Oh But wait that destroys the false picture perfect Image you would like to give people about yourcountry. if they only knew about what goes on here. Remember that coloured boy a while back who was grabed by his white counterparts walking home from work, and tied to the back of the truck, and drageed down the Highway 120mph, and they found the poor kids body scatered all through out the interstae. Yeah I remeber President Clinton came out and tried to calm things down, but if remeber correctly the KKK, came into the young boys town, and called for "Nigger Lynchns".
Lets take the cases in alabama where a WHITE father caught his 12 yearold daughter having sex, so he buried her alive so no one would find out, this was what 2-3 mopnths ago, we all know at least the ones who live down here in the South, that these cases are extreamly prevelent in the rural areas, and counties. Hey didnt something like this happen n Rosenburg not 4 weeks ago wheredaddy caught his little girl banging a coloured boy, so he, drilled holes in his daughters hand so she would and i quote "remember her sin".
Yall come back know ya hear!
"...why are you pouring our oil in your cars...
Ahhh, Because it makes them run?
"...why are you meddling in our affairs...
Possibly because some of your bretheren have flown plains into some of our most important buildings. We're funny that way.
Possibly because some of your bretheren have flown plains into some of our most important buildings. We're funny that way
Maybe if your brothern did not meddle in our affairs in palistine for jesus then some of my desperate "brothern" would not have to fly planes in buildings.
"You know when a big bubba like you walks in on his wife Bertha banging Jimmy Ray from the trailor park 2 Miles down, and you decide to go and kill Bertha..."
Aaah, now I understan, your're a Dukes of Hazard fan.
"...but you see, AMerica is not the WHITE MANS WEST.
I'm not sure just what sad little world you occupy, but I will tell you that the rest of us that have gotton over the racisism that you display have already left you far behind.
'm not sure just what sad little world you occupy, but I will tell you that the rest of us that have gotton over the racisism that you display have already left you far behind.
Umm is that right, well your Euro-Centric statements you made about Middle Easterners really prove that, and your ideas about the less civilized society reck of the failed and Diluided European Superiority Ideology.
Their was a race riot in NYC not a week ago. After the storm. you myfriend look like you have been burying your head in the sand. i am watch Cnn, and the headline is "Race and the races" Intresting.
I am a Berber friend so I wont be going to the Middle East anytime soon.
But your statement hints that childish mindset of a youngster?
Tell me Curt how old are you, 12,13? Isnt it past your bed time?
"Their was a race riot in NYC not a week ago. After the storm. you myfriend look like you have been burying your head in the sand. i am watch Cnn, and the headline is "Race and the races" Intresting."
Link Please, I'm always interested in learning about race riots that occur in my own country.
"Tell me Curt how old are you, 12,13? Isnt it past your bed time?"
Many women in Houston are capable of defending their own honor.
You have a problem with that?
Many women in Houston are capable of defending their own honor.
You have a problem with that?
Whta the hell does that have to do with my comment?
I am gesussing you have had too much moonshine tonight.
Link Please, I'm always interested in learning about race riots that occur in my own country.
Here is the link I got it of a Christian Website. The Story is the first one on the page.
http://www.kkk.bz/
Ku Klux Klan = Christian Group? :P
It's cute that you get your news about America from the KKK, though, LibyanWarrior! Very fair, considering you get your news about the Middle East from Ayman Al Zawahiri :)
Well those folks are good Christians according to the majority of Americans. Another Gospel preacher is Fred Phelps, Sr.
would you prefer me to get links from him? :) :) :)
LW, when you were writing how many rapes and murders happen in America, I first thought you had found some old Communist newspapers. It's there I used to read such stuff. But I see now that the Web contains everything, including the equivalent of Communist papers.
Please give your brain some real food! Stop forcing only poison on it!
Well those folks are good Christians according to the majority of Americans.
Since it's Halloween, LibyanWarrior, why don't you prove that assertion for us? Ware a white robe and a white hood for a costume and show up at Halloween party. If you survive, you can post the pics of you dressed as the Grand Wizard of the KKK hanging out with the respectable folks down there whereever the hell you live, ok? :)
I'd venture a guess that even on Halloween (when everyone knows it is a joke), such a costume would get you into a great deal of trouble. Maybe fatal levels of it.
Lybian warrior is KKK. He also gets his info on Jews from Stormfront, which links to from his website.
Correct me if I'm wrong but we started off with I believe ,a photo of women wearing the niqab and ended with ruthless, back firing language which to my knowledge gets us nowhere !
Why the revenge and hatred ??
Be one Muslim , Christian, Jew,Athiest, Hindu or other, what about becoming a citizen of the world?
We are all human and should explore each others' belief and respect one another.
Lybian warrior is KKK. He also gets his info on Jews from Stormfront, which links to from his website.
Thats a lie. Their are no links to Stormfront on my Website. As far as being a member of the KKK, sorry i dont think i fit in being its a Christians Only Club.
Be one Muslim , Christian, Jew,Athiest, Hindu or other, what about becoming a citizen of the world?
Yes, lets all hug, smile, be gay, and join PETA and the ACLU.
Trabilsia, folks like LW and Night Riderz are trolls that are experiencing the classic psychological phenomenon of projection. Since they are both seething with racism, they project this emotion on to anyone they come in contact with. While annoying and often disturbing, it can also be very enlightening. Knowing the thought process of people like this can be a tool in defeating their hateful ideology.
Usually, I just read their rantings and move on. On the other hand, there are times that I just can’t resist the fun of baiting them, in the sure knowledge that their blatherings will instantly degenerate into ever more contradictory and inane utterances. Night Riderz is a perfect example of this process. You can see how his self control slips further and further into mindless drivel as his rant goes on.
I had already said pretty much every thing I wanted to about the actual subject of this thread with my first post. I just hung around for the entertainment value when I saw that LW had once again graced us with his presence. I’m always up for a good belly laugh.
"Dude I was born and raised here."
Mahmoud, I must confess a little confusion here. If you are such a fan of Ahmadinejad, and you think that the US is such a terrible place, why don't you move to Iran? With your world view it would seem to me that you would be a natural there. If you like, I would be happy to start a slush fund to help out with the moving expenses. I would consider it money well spent.
Mahmoud and LW are one in the same. :)
Mahmoud, I must confess a little confusion here. If you are such a fan of Ahmadinejad
WOW.
American Idoit may be to friendly of a pop culture label to brand your average red-state ingrate. Surley you do realize that the MA profile was nothing more then a mockery:)
just hung around for the entertainment value
Okay hope you where entertained. This blogs intelectual integraty was greatly hindered by your presence. Please do not return.
"I see this everysingle day, the whole hip-hop maddness..."
Wow, now I'm worried. I actually agree wit h something LW has said. I may have to Re-evaluate my whole opinion of hip-hop. As for the large black men with gold crosses, these are usually the ones that convert to Islam once they land in prison. Hmmmm... Wonder why that is? Perhaps it's because they quickly see the advantages of belonging to a religion that actually condones treating women badly. (I'm refering to the Wahabbi crowd here.) What do you think LW? Could I be on to something here?
"Surley you do realize that the MA profile was nothing more then a mockery:)"
Actually LW I had my suspicions but the blogs are too full of this kind of dual personality nuttery for me to add to it.
Example:
Sand Monkey = Big Pharaoh = Religious Policeman
But if you want to think that you got me, go for it. I will say that if you want this kind of device to really work, you have to espouse opinions a little more distinct from the ones you post regularly under your own pseudonym.
"global Dominance of Europe and The United States only proves the accuracy of Christianity."
Nice try LW but anyone that has read my post know that this is not me. Next!
I'm not sure that the people I'm concerned to talk with are reading my replies here , but whoever is familiar with my blog knows I always take part in discussion even if I'm late.
I am so tempted to delete the irrelevant posts bouncing back and forth because they really are an eyesore.
LW and all your aliases, this is the last time I tell you to post your ideas about racism , rape, religions, hatred etc.. on YOUR blog , where if you are interested in my reply you will send me a link and I will go there. I'm afraid your are spamming my blog this way and whatever valid point you have is lost.
From now on I shall delete ANY comment from you which is longer than TWO lines and which contains the words, rape, race, Christian, Islam; I am really tired of that. Just as you care about Islam and its prophet, Muslims rever the Prophets of previous religion. Which means that no matter how much you hate what some adherents to other religions have done, you do not insult their religion or book ! That is unacceptable. I know you will tell me 'they' do it, they are Islamophone, I will reply so what ? let them , if you want to prove superiority be more civil than them. At this point I really have nothing to tell you anymore, unfortunately I have not seen any constructive thoughts from you.:(
Anglo Libyan thanks for the tip , although since people from the Gulf are part of the Lebanese industry, do you think they will let this be a funny postcard ?
I read about Straw's statements that prompted the niqab row in Britain last month. I just don't understand but people do have free choice I guess , except when this is related to public security. I mean there are men wearing this to visit their girlfriends in their houses ...etc...
Ghazi Gheblawi, thanks for commenting too. I have made the same remarks about the rise of hijab in a previous post about hijab.
I don't complete share the idea that hijab degrades women, but the way it has been taken does not indicate piousness but something else. I've read your earlier post about this similar topic on your blog and the discussion there and found it fascinating. I have something to add which I will make in a forthcoming post.
I'll comment to others soon too . I need to go to work now...
Whatever you singling me out just proves what a bigot you are, and how much you hate Islam. And how biased you are in your posts, and your presentation of current events. Its really sickening. you didnt say a thing to anyone except me, you picked me out of everyone, that just proves your intolerance, and your bias.
It's bad enough you change your blogger display name every single day, LibyanWarrior, and it's bad enough that you post under "type in names" and anonymously... but!
To impersonate another commenter in the very same discussion. man. You couldn't really get any sleazier than that, could you?
Libyan full of crap berber sleaze bag warrior (LW)knows that I am watching him and what he says, he knows i can deal with a scum bag like him and he is scared of me because he knows that i know about his filthy history. as i mentioned before he should be banned and ignored by everyone, he is disgusting, racist foul mouthed berber trash that has no respect for anyone be it muslim chrstian jew or otherwise, he is a bitter person who is a lot older than 19 which he claims he is, he has mental problems and is basically the scum of the earth and any Libyan would not be associated with this dirt bag, i will continue to haunt him until he either stopps his filthy garbage berber trash comments or until he kills himself which is the better choice, after all the rubbish he has been vomitting on blogs now he is taking other people's identity now this is the lowest of the low but that is not a surprise coming from this berber trash.
Real Libyan
gee, the comments are getting a little creepy here...
Hi Adam , I too feel uncomfortable with this type of wearing the veil except in places where it has been natural and is a part of the national costume and is not implemented by force so I'm not
talking about KSA here.
Anonymous 8.58 PM and Lovelytripoli you have a point about the Niqabis don't taking photos, but you know they do in
weddings and parties etc... and that's worse because if they care they would not as they don't know who will have them on bluetooth or digital devices.
Anonymous 10.36 PM thanks for the link no I have not read the book yet but will look it up .
Leilouta :) Craig and I have decided that your photo is probably the original because it shows the eye slits from the niqab and also the east-asian maid with
no headcover, which is consistent. The one on my post could be photoshoped .
Redenclave LOL at the guy photographing another lady not his family .I tried wordpress but don't really like it :)so you will need to do some more persuading..
White African , I agree woman has a choice as long as it is not forced onto others, but there are times where showing the face is crucial as you know.Otherwise she can withdraw from society.
Shlemazl Thank you for your
contribution, I wish LW and others could learn from your style , 5 lines and a link to your post where we are free to discuss or not, instead of 40 comments which I can no longer sift thru.
Maya thanks for the comment , the
'difficult choice ' is really a test of willpower, I am not talking about those women on whom hijab and niqab was forced, I am talking about professional,
educated, intelligent women, or simply ordinary women who chose to wear it and I truely admire the strenght of character to be able to sacrifice cocquetrie to the outside. Although my hair has no style at all , I just cannot imagine covering it :) , but also
I cannot imagine not flirting LOL. Those are the people who are able to give that up ....I won't comment on the injustice ( yes or no ) of your statement, I think that is personal belief and it is up to the individual .
debilitating pieces of cloth reminds me of your post about the students at Bulgarian universities and another interesting theory you stated.
Lovelytripoli :P I remmember Zwawi's cartoon very well about the Libyan women in farashiya , if I find it I will scan it and post it . I love Zwawi soooooo much !
Curt from Houston thanks for commenting always good to hear from you, if you don't respond to provocative arguments they will die , this is the policy I try to maintain.
you get a feel for the kind of mentality that permeates this culture of sexual repression. why are you labelling a whole society on individuals? I read the Sandmonkey thread as well, and I saw some people commented that there was such a riot in NYC once, so mob culture is the same everywhere, not specific to one society. Where those New Yorkers sexually repressed ?
Molesting women should not happen either in the ME or the US or anywhere in the world.
Trust me when I say that you are far safer in the streets of Houston than the streets of virtually any Middle Eastern country. Especially if you are a non-Muslim.
Are you sure ? safety and security are relevant, pls don't generalise. Can I go home alone in Houston at 4am from a party wearing at least 2 kg of gold and 6 diamond rings and expect to arrive home safe? If I have a flat tyre , would every male stop and offer to help and phone my parents . Would someone stop and give me their latert model BMW or Mercedes to go home with and offer to repair my car and bring it home and collect his considerably more expensive one ? would the owners of the house my car has broken down in front off invite me in and tell their son to guard my car until someone from my family comes to take it ? It's just to say that blanket statements are not accurate , however I have never been to Houston so I cannot judge . I'm only commenting on that not on sunni or Shia or other stuff because I agree with you that it is a bloodbath.
Trabilsia what about becoming a citizen of the world?
We are all human and should explore each others' belief and respect one another.
I agree 100%
LW I am not singling you out but but because you are Libyan,people think you are representative and so far you are destroying any credibity . I can handle the others and I'm confident they would listen when I carefully phrase a request and it is logical if I tell them to stop but not you :(
Real Libyan no matter what LW did/does ,the berbers should not be insulted, because it means we act exactly like LW when one day he insults me and the next he praises me to the 7th heaven.
Chris in mb :) I agree any suggestions ?
Thank you to those who tried participating in a debate :)
LW:
Thats a lie. Their are no links to Stormfront on my Website. As far as being a member of the KKK, sorry i dont think i fit in being its a Christians Only Club.
1. I may have been inaccurate. National Vanguard or Stormfront it's all the same to me. Here is your post I was referring to.
2. You are so focused on skin colour that I am sure KKK will be proud to have you. Your latest post starts with the words: "FILTHY BROWN XXX" If that's not a KKK thing to say than I don't know what is.
"I read the Sandmonkey thread as well, and I saw some people commented that there was such a riot in NYC once, so mob culture is the same everywhere, not specific to one society. Where those New Yorkers sexually repressed ?
Molesting women should not happen either in the ME or the US or anywhere in the world."
Yes. I recall that shameful incident. New York City is one of the most liberal cities in the US. By liberal, I mean Socialist/Marxist. The hands of the posice in that cesspool have been tied. Political Correctness has run mad. New York like Los Angeles and Holly Wood are only margionally part of the United States. Aside from the outside world, we in the US are going through a very real cultural war. The two main web sites in this war are www.freerepublic.com and www.democraticunderground.com. I would urge you to go to both and make up your own mind.
Sory, posice = Police.
"Were those New Yorkers sexually repressed?
No, just the opposite. They were savages encouraged by the liberal policies of the city administration. I'd love to see them try that in Houston. Texas is a "Shall Issue" state. That means that anyone that goes through a criminal background check and passes, has to be issued a license to carry a concealed weapon. About a third of the licenses issued have been to women. The occurrences of the people issued these licenses abusing them is vanishingly small. The crime rate down here has dropped significantly. When you outlaw guns, you insure that only outlaws will have them.
"...why are you labelling a whole society on individuals?"
Im not. This is my whole reason for being on the Middle Eastern blogs. I truely like and admire you folks. But the actions of a significant number of your countrymen have turned our whole world in the West upside down. We were just getting used to the idea that we no longer faced nuclear obliteration from the Soviets when, blam! 9/11.
No it dd not Curt the crime rate is up 20%. Rapes according to the HPD are higher then they have ever been in Texas, especially after Katrina.
As far as things being turned upside down. Well I geuss thats what you get when a nation on the otherside of the world goes out of its way to meddle in the Affairs on a Peoples thousands of miles away from its own.
My Question to you.
Why Support Israel?
Because some book which has no accuracy and is filled with contridictions told you so?
Isnt this the same book which Male Jews recite a prayer from every morning stating
"Blessed be God King of the universe that Thou has not made me a woman." ?
The same book which states
"No wickedness comes anywhere near the wickedness of a woman.....Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die." (Ecclesiasticus 25:19, 24)
"The birth of a daughter is a loss." (Sirach 22:3)
Sad, oh so sad the oppression which the Judeo-Christian Women folk face daily. I shall put them in my prayers.
Maybe once turkey, repents, drops the oppressive tendencies of secularism, acknowleges the Sovergntity of The GOD OF ABRAHAM, maybe then the European Women may be free, and valued for her true worth.
Glory to the Lord.
Did you know According to The Almanac Book of Facts, in the past decade Converts to Islam increased 235 per cent. In the US, a recent poll determined that 100,000 people per year are converting to Islam in America alone. For every male convert to Islam, four females convert. The vast majority of converts to Islam are former Christians.
Glory to the Lord!
All Praise be to Him, For he is surley the way.
God Lord. Some truley sad news my friends. It seems a high ranking Christian minister has been involved in a "GAY" sex scandle. This is what sexual repression, and a book which preaches hatred to women must do to men.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061103/ap_on_re_us/haggard_sex_allegations
LW, I wasn't saying that all these US rapes and murders etc. in the old Communist propaganda and its modern Web analogues were fictional. I meant there are crimes in any country and they are not equal to the life in general. My brother lives in the USA with his family. He has never said, "It's awful here, people get raped and murdered all the time." On the contrary, he likes his life in America. If he didn't, he would come back.
Highlander, I seem to understand you now. But to be modest, a woman doesn't need a headscarf at all. There is an entire dress code, beginning with the heels. Generally, the convenient clothes and haircut are modest as well. (Not that I'm recommending to young unmarried women to go far into that direction - they just mustn't be TOO modest!) No need to put a thing that radiates unpleasant political messages.
I was really interested by LW's two headscarved fellow students. You wrote that you couldn't study in the USA because of lack of money. The same is true for most East-Europeans, including Bosnians. They are not rich people. And here you have two who can, and both are headscarved, unlike most Bosnians. This is material for thinking.
BTW now agents from Turkey promise to bring to Bulgarian universities large groups of students, but only if guaranteed that the girls will be allowed to wear headscarves throughout their study. The rectors say, "Well, you can bring them here, but how can I guarantee that next month the Parliament won't pass a law banning headscarves in public schools?" Understandable for a 10-year-old, isn't it? But the "sharks" keep circling, they know that the hijabs are important.
The Girls who wear the Hijab both Bosnian and those of other ethnic groups, 90% do it for fashion/political or ethnic association. I support this personally. But to be honest with you maya the vast majority of the girls who wear hijab do not even pray. basically all of this is a result of the Hippie-Ni-Zation of my religion. Their is a new movement which is basically a love affair between Leftists, and the Moderate Muslims Orthodoxy. They are secular in their Practice of Islam, but Radical in their political agenda. Its POLITICAL ISLAM. Its not a religouse movement, its a political movement sort of Like neo-conservatism, but it leans to the far left. Basically they wave their hizbollah flags, and talk about opening the boarders, and worship Mahmoud Ahmadinajad, and Hugo Chavez. They have their whole Left/Islam culture. Its a massive Muslim youth popular urban culutre movement. You can thank 3 people for this.
1. Mr.Hamza Yusuf Hanson.
2. African American Muslims and hip-hop culture.
3. Fun-da-Mental
These folk are basically trying to make Islam "Cool" and "Hip" for the new american/western muslim kids. Now you have another group of Muslim Kids, who practicing Muslims, and are actually following the whole religion of Islam. THE MSA. Look I have nothing against MSA kids but generally they are some of the biggest pussys you will ever met. They are type of kids that wont play tackle football, because its too ruff. They are usually skinny south asian guys and girls with glasses who muble and jumble hadith, and worry if they commit sins, and fret and panic over each and every detail. But these folks are very tame Politics wise. I was kicked out of the MSA during the Cartoon Crap last year. The Campus Crusade for Christ pussies where pulling out their Neo-Con handbooks, and the whole "Islam is intolerant rubish" so I went out Pulled my bible, and began to use their same tricks. So i made anti-Christian literature, and some posters, and becuase of it I almost found my ass out of school. I got kicked out of the MSA, i had to write a apology letter, and a whole bunch of other crap. But anyway basically the Hijab is a ethnic Muslim cultural thing, most girls do it, to fit in. like the Kids in Campus Crusade for Christ, wear the WWJD clothing. Muslim kids wear the hijab and the cresent t-shirts, and well now after this summer, everyone came back with those stupid yellow hizbo t-shirt and the gay little jamacian beenies. You have white syrian guys walking around with beenies!! WTF? Seriosly can you say wigger? I personally would like to see a Islamic Neo-Con movement, I want the ideology to go to the right, the hell with love peace, and that shit. I want flags, and Pride, tradition, Secure the boarders, guns, guns, and more guns. I want some Armegedon Preachin. God we have a Mosque on Campus and every week the same damn speaches, give Charity, Peace, Tolerance, hug, forgive. All thats good, but it is bland as hell, I dont even bother going anymore.
As far as the whole America thing,I was not trying to say it was like Iraq, or the balkans these places are war zones, all i was trying to say is that in Major Areas in Major Cities it is Dangerouse for a non-coloured pedistrian to walk around.
Posing as a Christian here, LibyanWarrior? And I assume that was you, claiming to be a Jew, on Freedom for Egyptians? It must have been because the comments there had the same nonsense biblical quotes you used here!
Lying about your religion... what's next?
"God Lord. Some truley sad news my friends. It seems a high ranking Christian minister has been involved in a "GAY" sex scandle. This is what sexual repression, and a book which preaches hatred to women must do to men."
Unfortunately, Pedophiles are naturally attracted to jobs that bring them in close proximity to and authority over young, easily manipulated kids. This is true the world over and has nothing to do with religion. You see the same sort of thing with teachers and counselors. Predators go where the prey is. Nothing more.
"No it dd not Curt the crime rate is up 20%. Rapes according to the HPD are higher then they have ever been in Texas, especially after Katrina."
This is a recent development caused specifically by the criminal element that was imported from New Orleans. Over time, it will take care of itself as the bad guys are either sent to prison or move on to places that aren't so tough on criminals.
"As far as things being turned upside down. Well I geuss thats what you get when a nation on the otherside of the world goes out of its way to meddle in the Affairs on a Peoples thousands of miles away from its own.
My Question to you.
Why Support Israel?
I keep hearing about the US meddling in other nation's affairs as the reason for all the blood shed but oddly enough, every time I press for details it always comes back to the JOOOOOS!
"If you Americans would just let us massacre the JOOOS everything would be just hunky dory."
Some how I doubt this. Once the Islamo Fascists are done with the JOOOS they'll just move on to the next scape goat to blame all of their problems and short comings on. For instance, why are the Islamists beheading Christian school girls in Malaysia? I don't recall them sending any support to Israel.
Curt,
Some would say it's all the JOOOOS. Others say it's all Israel's fault and without Israel there would be world peace and harmony. Just as there was before Israel.
"Just as there was before Israel."
Ha Ha! Good one shlemazl! I love your sense of humor. Right on target.
WTF?
What are you talking about Curt. The Jews lived in perfect peace and Harmoney in the Middle East before you Angols got involved. here dont take my word for it. take the word of the honerable rabbi.
a letter from one rabbi to persecuted Jews in Europe read like this;
Here in the land of the Turks we have nothing to complain of. We possess great fortunes; much gold and silver are in our hands. We are not oppressed with heavy taxes and our commerce is free and unhindered. Rich are the fruits of the Earth. Everything is cheap and everyone of us lives in peace and freedom. Here the Jew is not compelled to wear a yellow star as a badge of shame as is the case in Germany where even wealth and great fortune are a curse for a Jew because he therewith arouses jealousy among the Christians and they devise all kind of slander against him to rob him of his gold. Arise my brethren, gird up your loins, collect all your forces and come to us.-Constantinople : City of the World's Desire, 1453-1924-Phillip Mansel pg 15
If you Americans would just let us massacre the JOOOS everything would be just hunky dory."
If we use that logic then china should wage a war against christian facism, the US, and Europe, in the name of defending the Muslims.
Curt, I have a question why is it that you constantly make cheap escuses for you people, but you tend to harsley discriminate against mine when a incident occurs in my society?
In every incident which has occured in the Muslim world you have blamed Islam as the reson for the incident such as a 15 yearold in france, or youth in egypt going crazy(a report which has yet to be proven, the fact that no one in egypt has even filed a complaint with the authorities, not to mention the fact that 1000's opf young men would all go boonkers in a split second, seems high unlikley), but when a High Ranking Christian offical commits a horrid act, you claim it has nothing to do with the Christian religion, but random "pedophilia"? The above are just random people, which are equal to the criminals from Katrina and the US(which are of Christian decent) but a High Ranking Evangelical met with the president of the US every week, he was a highly religiouse man. I for one am sick of random thugs being made poster boys of the Islamic faith while, thugs from the west of the christian faith who greatly outnumber Muslims in their crimes in both number, as well as severity get a pass. If you pick our criminals and blame them on our religion then it is only fair, the we muslims pick your Criminals and paint them as the leaders of the faith. You have people who commit incest, molest their daughter, you have sickos, who go on killing sprees, and commit autrocities which would shock your averge Muslim. Its only fair. I have yet to understand why the Middle Eastern press doesn ot treated the everyday incidents in the west commited by people of christian decent the way people in the west write about the crimes commited by people of muslim decent. If a Muslim kills someone, then it is painted as something to do with Islam but when a christian kills someone its just a crime. As soon as I gradute college I will make it my lifes work to start a media outlet which will scrutinize over each and every incident in the west commited by people of christian decent, and i will make sure that the headlines read Christian kills girl, Christian kils family. Look at houston every night their is 6-7 incidents on the news of someone killing a family, commiting a murder, exposing himself to childre. The US has arrested 1600 people for sexual abuse of children in the US in the past month, if this where to happen in the Muslim world, Good Lord, every incident with be showing how backwards ISLAMIC society is. We in the Muslim world have given you people a great pass. America is a very conservative nation, every incident which occurs is aprime example of the backwardness of CHRISTIAN society.
"The US has arrested 1600 people for sexual abuse of children in the US in the past month".
Every nation has a right to have it's villans and morons. Spare a thought for poor Libyans who have the Libyan Warrior giving them a bad name.
Anyone interested in some factual, referenced information on the life of Jews in the Muslim world in the Middle Ages can find it here
The majority of your "facts" which you presented are historically inaccurate. In anycase. One must ask what exactly was the Jew doing in barbary? I thought jews where indigonous to khanazi? As the vast majority of historians who have not been assinated or thrown in jail have stated. With historically accurate, and complient evidance might I add.
When you leave home except some discomfort. in anycaseas history shows, the Jew was treated a billion times better in the Babrbay states then in his native Europe. As far as your quotations all of them come from individuals who have known prejudices and biases towards the Muslims, and hence they are not acceptable means of citation. Not only are the examples which you stated bigoted, but they also are contradictory to the overwhelming accounts of the vast and varied respectable historians who have presented evidance to the contrary.
Every nation has a right to have it's villans and morons. Spare a thought for poor Libyans who have the Libyan Warrior giving them a bad name.
Actual Minius the alias of the "Libyan Warrior" the majority of Libyans agree with me whole heartedly on a vast majority of Issues. You must not forget that Highlander is not the voice of Libyans, as Sandmonkey is not the voice of Egyptians, as L is not the voice of tunisians, these folks are outcasts, who are reviled in their homelands. Sandmonkey represents .00009% of the egyptian population(The Copts :)) L, does not represent anything except a disgruntled Arab Christian lost on Berber Land angry at Islam and Pan-Arabism. And Highlander, is well, I wont say she doesnt represent Libyans feelings, but lets just say her thinking is vastly superior to your averge guy or chick on the street. The Majority of Libyans are like highlander, mixed with RL. minus the racism. They are intelegent and intelectual at times, but they are also very tempermental people, very emotional people. highlander, really gets me at times, Iwonder if she actually is a Libyan. Her skills of calmness are beyond my comprehnsion, I have come with following conclusions. 1. She is damn near ODing on prozac, and X, and when she is blogging she is on a happy trip. 2. She is a posser. 3. She is a vastly superior being from another planet who landed in Libya and was takin in by a elderly couple who called her , their own. 4. She has evolved before the rest of us, and hence has developed superior social skills. 5. She is just the calmest person on this side of the milkway. How she puts up with people like PC, you, and the rest of you crazy people is beyond my comprehension. Another thing which puzzles me is her English skills. She speaks the Language better the Queen of England herself, this is very strange. I thought she might be just some bored government worker possing on the blogosphere, but she has came out against US policy a numbr of times. Is she a Libyan American?, a Libyan Brit? or maybe she is like I said a forign being from another planet. In anycase, I should probably sleep now, being that the sun is up, and I am still typing.
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