Sunday, August 13, 2006

Gauging the mood

While waiting for my appointment at the doctor, I'm absentmindedly watching TV; footage of the destruction by the IDF inflicted on Lebanon is prevalent. I'm bored and strike up a conversation with the receptionist.

H: This is getting so depressing, I can differentiate between Palestine, Iraq or Lebanon anymore.
Guy: Don't tell me about it , I stopped caring...
H: huh why ?
Guy: Since my best friend was martyred in Iraq in 2003 - inshallah
H: was he Libyan or Iraqi ?
Guy : Libyan, he said goodbuy to his parents and went to liberate Iraq only to end up dead for nothing. We Arabs have stopped caring - until we find a way to elicit respect nothing will change- that is why I no longer care whatever happens let them kill each other....


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People have gotten a bit blase about Iraq, I mean what's new ? they are blowing up each other daily, while people in the Green Zone watch and enjoy . Lebanon is the fresh new wound and so it has galvanized hearts and minds

A coffee break at work turns into a discussion on Lebanon

Finance guy: Hey H I've wanted to ask you if you don't mind your opinion on what's happening in Lebanon, do you think Hezbollah have a chance? what they are doing is courageous standing up to Israel behind whom America is hiding.
H: Do you want the truth ?
Finance guy: Yes ... that's why I'm asking.. you're always pouring into those books ...
H: Hezbollah have no chance, they are outnumbered and outgunned and this is the wrong time to have picked a fight. It will be a massacre , Israel has been waiting for just this opportunity. Israel has a bonus, It gets to destroy Lebanon too in the process.. that is a big plus here , now if it can taunt and dangle enough bait it is hoping to get the bigger prize Syria.
Finance guy: I just wish we can do something..
H: you can pray, pray very hard and send aid

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How easy it is to go from ordinary employee to suicide bomber, believe me it is not difficult when you are frustrated. Watch this ordinary, gucci- versace- burberry wearing , guerlain makeuped, European raised , dual nationality holder , not veiled colleague of mine :

Secretary: uffffffffff I am so depressed
H : why ? what's up
Secretary: I can't stay here with my hands tied - I need to do something
H: what can you do ?
Secretary : go and blow myself up
H: Whaaat ? where ?
Secretary: In Lebanon
H: what do you mean ? first of all you won't be able to get near any Israeli to blow yourself up, remember those courageous soldiers are mostly fighting in the air. Also if you do get near the ones who are conducting the ground offensive, that means you are already dead. Also before thinking about fighting did you not think how you will get to Lebanon ? you need a visa and how will you enter ? no airport - no flights. You have the option of going via Syria, but then you will be killed like a fly in your car when travelling from the border to Beirut.
Secretary: But I want to do something- I hate the way we have become- blowing myself up is the only weapon I have left... I think I need to attached part of the bomb to my head too not to feel the pain, I will die immediately.
H: well if you are so adamant about it and can find a way to get there , go do it .
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I'll offer my solution in another post.

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

Sometimes you need to make....the odds may appear against you....but remember...you are making the future right now.

Redneck

Terry Crane said...

Do Israeli really need or want to destroy Lebanon? Let's see - they make heaps of money on IT startups, plus a bit on diamond trade, general technology, agriculture etc. How exactly loosing the lives of their programmers, farmworkers and marketing managers drafted from reserve gonna help them?

Just go to any Israeli blog and ask an innocent question - is your business insured against a loss of employee to war?

Then again you have Hezbolah that is paid to fight Israelis. That's what they say in English, at least. If in Arabic they claim they are into real estate or gourmet food - please let me know.

Romans used to ask "Quo bono?" - who is to gain? Let you find out for yourself, after all I am a Zionist conspirator, an Elder of Zion, human flesh eating monster, Racist, war-monger, and as such cannot be trusted

Highlander said...

Hello Terry Crane.Welcome to my blog, I'm glad you decided to comment finally :)

I don't think the Israelis 'need to destroy Lebanon' but some of them have expressed that wish in the recent weeks ( perhaps it was just a reaction to being bombed by Hezbollah ? ), but maybe their politicians do ? maybe you are all proxies used by the US to wage its war on Russia and Iran in the ME ?
Nobody needs to loose their lives from either side . Maybe you should check my other posts ...if you have the time. You do have an interesting blog by the way which has started with the Lebanon crisis it seems. All the best in your blogging.


Redneck - yes some kind of action is needed - but not the irresponsible type . Rather something that would set us in a path to right the wrongs . It won't be easy .

programmer craig said...

I agree that everyone who wishes to blow themselves up in protest over "x" should be allowed to do so! Hopefuloly as far away from anyone else as possible though!

This will never end until the last suicidal nutjob is dead. So, the sooner the better. Lets get it on.

Sorry, Highlander, but I have no sympathy for the jaded jihadi wannabes you met. They want war and death but they complain about war and death. Makes no sense. People like that are mentally ill.

Look at the "victory" Hezbollah just won? Only muslims could call that a victory. As they do. I'm a bit tired of hearing how brutally Israel was just "beaten" and at the same time hear about all the destruction in Lebanon. You can't have it both ways. You can't complain about being "humiliated" and crow about winning a war at the same time. Can you? I don't get this arab mentality. Or is it a muslim mentality? Whatever it is. I don't get it. What kinds of "victories" are these!? I seriously think nuclear devastation of the middle-east would be characterized as a victory by the survivors. I'm certain of it. That's Ahmadinejad's plan, isn't it? Get the middle east destroyed and claima victory for God? Insanity. Total insanity.

Well. Anyway. I hope Lebanese do not spend a lot of time and money rebuilding Lebanon, because it's going to happen again, and again, and again, until Hezbollah is gone. Next time it might be the US. I hope it is. Israel has not handled this very well. The US can do better. Hosue to house. Eye to eye. Til anybody who has the stupidity to associate with Hezbollah is history.

OK, now everyone can see why I habven't been posting :)

Anything realtiung to Hezbollah is very personal to me. I want them dead. Every last one of them. If I could wave a magic wand and make it so, I'd be doing it right now. With no remorse.

programmer craig said...

Highlander,

Nobody needs to loose their lives from either side

Yes they do. Hezbollah must be exterminated like teh vermin they are. WIth the same vigor with which Al Qaeda members have been. Israel has failed. The US is up next. We won't fail. Lebanon is a small country with a small population. We can disinfect Lebanon.

Hopefully, Hezbollah will attack peacekeepers (again) and will give the justification for a US invasion of Lebanon. Iraq was not part of the war on terror before 2003. Lebanon is, though, and it has been since Hezbollah was born shedding American blood in 1982. It's long since overdue and I'm not in any modod to be listening to Lebanese complaining about destruction in their country. Lebabon shelters Hezbollah in exactly teh same way Afghanistan sheltered Al Qaeda. If Lebanese want to feel safe they should get rid of Hezbollah themselves. Otehrwise, with all due respect, they should shut the fuck up when somebody else decides to attack HA.

Anonymous said...

Look at the "victory" Hezbollah just won? Only muslims could call that a victory. As they do. I'm a bit tired of hearing how brutally Israel was just "beaten" and at the same time hear about all the destruction in Lebanon.

This is too good to miss....

hey twat...HA achieved victory because none of the Israeli thugs demands were met, when they set out to start the war with Lebanon...

NO Israeli soldiers were returned
NO missiles were stopped
NO HA behind the Litani river
NO HA disarmament

All of these were Israeli thugs demands....do you see any of them being achieved? Only a twat like your very good self would see it as a victory for Israel....

In the military sense Israel did achieve victory, because ot beat the shit out of Lebanon, but politically it did not achieve what it set out to do....

If you look at the vitnamese war, militarlily, the US won the battle.... 2-3 million vitnamese dead...billions in destroyed economy, and a ravaged country...Politically, the US had its butt kicked and the vitnamese achieved what they set out to do....

As I predicted before....HA will be standing at the end of this war...and it did not disappoint....

Hopefully this will raise your sugar levels and you develop diabetes in the process..

Maya M said...

Programmer Craig, I agree partly with you but I don't think you are quite right. I don't think that Hezbollah could be destroyed in Lebanon only. Everybody knows that they are a hand of Iran and Syria. The two countries Highlander doesn't want to be attacked. I think they must be attacked, but this would be too much for Israel. So I cannot blame Israel for anything. While Iran and Syria (especially Iran) stay intact, you may not leave a single Lebanese alive and you still will have healthy Hezbollah.
Several weeks ago, I doubted whether Iran should be attacked. I was trying to balance the apocalyptic yet hypothetical consequences of Mr. Ahmadinejad having and using nuclear weapons and the sure deaths of innocent Iranians in a case of war. Now I side with those anti-Hezbollah Lebanese who say that it's dishonest that their bridges are destroyed while those in Iran remain.
As for the Anonimous who thinks that those who kidnap and shell civilians are the good guys and their opponents are thugs - does this require any comment? Dear madam or sir, why don't you say who you are, so that we could say, "This is why we are stereotyping people like you!".

programmer craig said...

Maya,I agree with you. Not so much re: Syria because I think Syria is also currently a proxy for Iran. But I agree Iran is the real problem. If and when Iran is dealt with, Hezbollah will be defanged. Syria is just a land bridge between Iran and Lebanon, a conduit that become irrelevant once the regime in Iran is changed. Hezbollah has not been dealt with up to this point (including 1983 when the provocation was greatest) because nobody has had the political will to take down the regime in Iran. I hope that has changed, and I think it has. I think that's the current US policy - regime change in Iran. And all this diplomacy is just smoke and mirrors. The Iranians don't take the diplomatic efforts seriously and neither does the US. On;y teh Europeans do, because only the Europeans think that terrorists can be reasoned with. And the IRI is and has always been a terrorist regime, since it's inception. Not only has Iran sponosored terrorist acts, it has directly committed terrorist acts going back to the hostage crisis in 1979.

But I still want Hezbollah destroyed. Not defanged. That's on a personal level. And by destroyed I mean killed. That's the fate they have earned, and it's the fate they deserve. No quarter. I don't expect my government would isntitute such a policy. But I wish they would.

Highlander said...

Maya and Craig, I have mixed feelings about Iran -Syria and Hezbollah topics , it is not so easy for me as it is for you, at stake are friends and loved ones and beautiful countries that I do not want to see destroyed like Lebanon was just now.

For Craig he said plainly it's personal, so even if the current HA people have nothing to do with the ones of 20 years ago he still wants them all dead. Problem Craig that means thousandsof people and their families. It does not matter even if HA changes it's alleged goal of destroying Israel.. and gets into mainstream politics. If I understood well he wants them all dead.
Which is of course a very natural human feeling ! and absolutely cannot be blamed for thinking this way. However, I'm wondering if that means we can forgive the Arabs whose soil has been taken over by European Jewish settler and whose ancestor lost their lives at the hands of the people now called Israelis or even the recent victims in Gaza and Lebanon .. could we not give them slack if they want to see as many Israelis dead as possible ? vengence the other face of justice is a very human if not humane characteristic. Sometimes it justifies everything, even if it gets futile.

Maya I do want Israel to live in peace, but not at the expense of its neighbours. The equation is simple.If Israel stops being a threat, I think Iran will too. We can keep asking everyone except Israel to back off all the time. It's getting so repetitive .
Maybe all parties should disarm for real and lasting peace to take place in the ME .. but then what would happen to all the businesses making billions of money with our collective souls ?

To get back to the examples I showed, these are not wannabe jihadis, Islamists or loosers. These are professionals who have hit the depth of depresion at what is happening, so look how easy it is to think in this way not because they are Muslim or Arab- but because it is a last resort !They don't have the patience to work towards a long haul goal, they want instant retribution... forgetting that well a thought out plan is much more effective ...and will get results even if it is not this generation but the next. We must learn from our cousins who have been producing the best scientists etc.. There is no shame in learning from others , shame is for staying put and committing the same mistakes !

removedalready said...

I personally think that we should care and think of the ppl of Palestine, Iraq & Lebanon.

Iraq for instance is going through a civil war. This shouldn't have happened. Why should they kill fellow muslims although of a different sact?

I know it's easier said than done, if they keep on fighting, the country will be destroyed & everything will be wiped out!

programmer craig said...

Highlander,

For Craig he said plainly it's personal, so even if the current HA people have nothing to do with the ones of 20 years ago he still wants them all dead.

Yep. They chose voluntarily to join a bloody-handed terrorst group that has murdered thousands of innocents. That makes them complicit in past crimes and makes them conspirators in future crimes, as far as I'm concerned. They didn't join Hezbollah innocently, unaware of Hezbollah's history. They joined Hezbollah *because* Hezbollah is a highly successful terrorist organization. Any Hezbollah member is a combatant in the war on terror. No exceptions. Just like the members of a military organization of a country at war are combatants in that war. If they don't like it, they need to disband themselves from HA. Problem solved.

Problem Craig that means thousands of people and their families.

Thousands of murderers and the families of murderers. If an HA member's family doesn't want to suffer grief when their terrorist cousin/son/brother/whatever gets killed, then they should encourage him to stop being a goddamned terrorist.

Otherwise, they deserve their suffering. I wholeheartedly support the conversion of all terrorists to martyrs.

It does not matter even if HA changes it's alleged goal of destroying Israel.. and gets into mainstream politics.

No. It doesn't. The guilty must be punished. They have not been. Does it make any difference if a mass murderer claims he will kill no more, and wants to be all peaceable and law abiding in the future? We should all just forgive him and let him go his way?

Hell no.

Hezbollah doesn't get to attempt to re-invent itself as something other than what it has been in the past. Not until the guilty have been punished. But if that happened, Hezbollah would die anyway, wouldn't it? There'd be like 5 idiots left. Honestly, Highlander, I don't know how you can reasonably expect a criminal organization that has murdered thousands of innocent people to be left un-molested. That's not working for me.

If I understood well he wants them all dead.

Yep! Dead or in prison! Preferably dead though, but prison would be acceptabnle! As long as they never get out of prison the rest of tehir lives! I still can't believe Germany cut loose that Hezbollah plane hijacker/murderer last year! That's NOT ok!! The man is a terrorsit and a sociopath and a murderer and a torturer! Such people cannot be reformed, by any techniques now known to man! He should have been in a cell until he died of old age!

By the way, my opinion re: Hezbollah have nothing to do with their stance on Israel. I don't really care what their stance is on Israel. They murdered my friends. And they've murdered people on every continent except antarctica. Literally. No terror group has victimized more people in more countries than Hezbollah. They are the spawn of Satan. They must be destroyed. Utterly. And, they will be. When that time comes anybody who doesn't get out of the way has a pretty good chance of getting hurt or killed. I don't care about that. They've been warned. HA's friends and family can either abandon HA or they can die with them. Their choice, but I will not be in much of a sympatetic mod hearing about "innocent" victims caught in the crossfire. Don't wanna get caught in the cross-fire? Get the fuck out of the way, then.

programmer craig said...

Oh! And one more thing! :O

Problem Craig that means thousands of people and their families.

Thos families are not necessarily "innocent" themselves! How many of those family member are guilty of conspiracy to commit crimes, aiding and abetting a known criminal, harboring a fugitive from justice, or a host of other crimes that can be applied to the associates of a criminal?

They don't deserev to die for that, but neither can they be seen as entirely innocent victims, if they do. Under international law, such people can be classified as "hostile" non-combatants due to their close association with enemy combatants, and are therefore subject to being considered lawful targets.

I think it's about time we trot out some laws of long standing and apply them to the war on terror. Terrorists may not be so anxious to victimize the innocent if their own families would be prosecuted and punished for their (indirect) participation, in a civil court.

And terrorists ina war zone may not be in such a hurry to hide behind their women and children in residential neighborhoods, if they knew they women and children would be targetted (lawfully) right along with them, and die along with them.

That's the law. We like to throw our knowlegde of internationla law aroudn when we're talking about the US and Israel, right? So, we all know the law. Lonmg since. Lets put it in play. Like the old OLD days, before the UN came around and fucked up the world. People used to WIN wars once in a while, back then. And the losers... damn, they really ended up knowing they got their asses handed to them, didn't they?

That's what we need to deal with groups like Hezbollah. Not new laws. Old laws.

And if the Un can't abide that then we just don't need the UN around anymore, anywhow.

PS-The two attacks on teh US embassy by Hezbollah in Lebanon in 1982/1983 both occurred under US sovereignity. We want every single person involved in those attacks (in any way) for prosecution in US courts. We also want everyone who has harbored and/or aided those criminals the last 23 years. That should roll up about 80% of Hezbollah's membership right there, I'm guessing :P

Also, as long as Hezbollah calls itself the "Party of God" (That must be your God, Highlander, because my God doesn't want people to commit rapes, murders, torture, kidnapping, etc in His name, so I'm not familiar with that God) then if muslims don't start saying "knock it off with the claiming you work for our God thing, dumbasses, you're EVIIIILLLLL!!!!" then all of Islam is at least partially responsible for what Hezbollah does. In my opinion.

You can't have it both ways. If the problem isn't Islam, then you need to start condemning terrorists who claim to be working for your God. Because again, that's not MY God we are talking about here, just to be clear. I don't believe in that God who likes His followers to cause so much pain and suffering amongst the innocent.

Highlander said...

That was a very clear post Programmer_Craig. Thank you for sharing ot with us .

programmer craig said...

You're welcome, Highlnader. Sorry I wasn't able to stay calmer though. I get like tat wehn talking about Hezbollah.

By the way. The two American journalists who were kidnapped in Gaze 2 weeks ago? That's Hezbollah. Not Palestinians. That has Hezbollah written all over it. Hezbollah took hundreds of hostages in lebanon in the 1980s, including many western journalists, college proessors, etc. I'd bet a year's pay it either Hezbollah members who did that, or Iranians did it directly. It's too out of character for palestinian groups. Hostage taking is very much *in* character, for Hezbollah, though. It's their trademark move. Hezbollah tends to keep hostages alive for years, though, unlike Al Qaeda. That's the good news. The bad news is that it can be a *lot* of years that they hold people hostage.

They deserve to die just for that. For what they did to the hostages in the 80s. Even if they hadn't done anything else. Nobody on this earth deserves death more than Hezbollah. They are classically evil human beings. For those of you who are morally ambiguous and don't really believe in good and evil, examine Hezbollah closely and you may change your minds. It's not possible for people to be any worse than that.

Curt from Houston said...

"Yep! Dead or in prison! Preferably dead though, but prison would be acceptable!"

I totally agree PC. What I can't figure out is what it is with Arabs that they take seriously nitwits like Nasrallah; frumpy little men with scraggly beards wearing grubby night shirts. It's sort of like going to Charles Manson for advice on social etiquette.

Highlander said...

You know Curt on the surface it looks very easy to wonder what is it with Arabs. You would think they don't see what is right and wrong or what is going on ? unfortunately my friend they do see, it would have been so much less painful if they did not ... if you really wish to know you must make the time learn more about those Arabs :)
They are full of faults , but they are also such great wonderful fun .
I must say that you are doing an excellent step in following the Arab ( English speaking blogosphere) as a first step that is very nice and I'm happy for you and I'm pleased you do read my blog ;) don't be discouraged Curt - there is hope yet for those Arabs ....

Curt from Houston said...

"You know Curt on the surface it looks very easy to wonder what is it with Arabs. You would think they don't see what is right and wrong or what is going on ? unfortunately my friend they do see, it would have been so much less painful if they did not ... if you really wish to know you must make the time learn more about those Arabs :)"

Hi Highlander. Thanks for your kind reply.

Admittedly, before 9/11, I like most Americans didn’t know much about Arabs or Muslims. Since then, I have made it a kind of personal mission to find out. I have worked for a global oil field services company since early 2000 and have had the privilege of working with some extremely fine people from the Middle East. At work, it’s kind of an understood thing that you don’t discuss religion or politics so I tended to take the Arab folks at face value and my general impression was very good. Unfortunately, 9/11 changed all that. I felt compelled to delve into the details and hopefully get a sense of why three thousand people had to die that day. What I discovered did not bode well for Islam as it is practiced today.

I have actually read the English translation of the Koran from cover to cover. While much of it is innocuous and even praise worthy, I found a great deal in it to be for want of a better term, disturbing. Unlike the Christian Bible who’s harsh Old Testament has been superseded by the New Testament, the Koran is believed by Muslims to be the last word direct from God. Beyond that, some of the earlier chapters of the Koran that encouraged peace and tolerance between religions were over ridden by later chapters demanding Jihad against all non-Muslims. If this is incorrect, then you may want to take it up with most of the Muslim scholars I have read translations from.

I have heard that the reason that we were attacked on 9/11 was that we support Israel. I have heard that the reason was that we support the House of Saud in Arabia. I have heard that we were attacked because Hollywood movies are corrupting Arab youth. The list goes on and on. What I find puzzling is why Muslims are killing people in the Philippians, India, Spain, England, Egypt, Bosnia, Somalia, East Timor, Algeria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Turkey, Bali, Thailand, and just about anywhere else they become more than about ten percent of the population. If you doubt this, look here http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/. But don’t stop there, go here http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/ , or here http://www.memri.org/ , or just about any place else on the Internet that isn’t produced by an Islamic country or faction.

Finally, as the lunatic in Iran develops nuclear weapons against the rational judgment of the rest of the free world, your own country was immediately welcomed back into the league of civilized nations the minute that it renounced terrorism and atomic it’s ambitions. Madam, I am a free market capitalist and a Libertarian. I, like most of my countrymen have no ill will towards Arabs or Muslims. In fact, I wish you all would hurry up and catch up with us so that both of us can have ever expanding wealth and prosperity. Think about it the next time you hear one of these idiotic conspiracy theories about how the West wants to humiliate the Arab. Far from it, we want you wealthy and confident enough to buy our goods. It’s not us. It is you that are your own worst enemies.

P.S.

I'm having some problems posting this so if there are multiple post, I apologize in advance.

Curt from Houston said...

"He also called on Libyans to make their country more prosperous. "We have to set money aside to make the 1.1 million relatively poor Libyans rich," he said.

Gaddafi proposed that poor Libyans set up oil services companies to replace foreign firms in the country.

"Foreign services companies working in Libya earn millions. Why do we not earn these millions which currently go to foreigners?" he asked."


This is a fine goal but as I stated in the previous post, I work for an oil field services company. I see how it works day to day. You don't just "start one". It takes an incredibly diverse spread of people from a wide range of world class expertise to be successful in that business. The company that I work for employs Libyans. They will employ virtually anyone with the necessary skills to get the job done. If Mr. Gaddafi can start his own oil field services business and employ only Libyans, I say more power to him but he's up against some of the best minds in the world.