Friday, August 04, 2006

Mr. Highlander -updated

I don’t want to sound callous, but I’m sure you’ve all had an overdose of war on the blogs. So I thought that it was time to tackle some other topic, we can revert to the Middle East – yes I have more controversy – in a few days time how about that ?

I’ve been sent many emails and forwarded quizzes asking me about my ideal man ;) , and how come there is no Mr. Highlander – along with some offers to fill that space he he he… Hmm it seems you guys are all curious about my taste eh ? By the way the tests and memes sent by the ladies where fun to do also. I swear I did them all! Oh and I promise I won’t divulge who asked me what …..

I had posted in February 2005 my favourite ‘purely physical’ attractive men, and then mentioned that my choice would be influenced by ‘intelligence, wit, education, culture , love etc...’.

So if anyone is matchmaking here is my partial non-comprehensive list :)

(1) Spirituality –faith

This is the most important characteristic , because the man who is confident about his spirituality and has faith in God will be at peace with himself and the world. He will harbour no hate and no suspicion towards other humans and he will therefore do his best to uphold human values for everybody. Which eventually translates into respect and love for his spouse – I would feel safe in the notion that it is okay for me to be human and imperfect, and that I would still be cared for. I guess what I’m looking for is the beauty of the soul .

(2)Extensive culture

My man has to be well rounded in his general culture or at least willing to learn more, degrees are not a proof of refinement and culture they are merely a tool and a guide. The principal part is the ambition to accumulate knowledge about all sorts of interesting topics and the will to share it.


(3)Conversation

The extensive culture mentioned above would result into wonderful conversation and debating skill and life would never be boring especially when we get older and the physical passion gets less urgent;) Plus a great conversation will make him sooooooooo charming.
We should be able to talk about anything with no taboos and no fear.


(4)Keeping promises /word

Keeping my word is a characteristic that was drilled into me since childhood. I was literally told “your word should never fall to the ground”. That is -you should always respect your word and keep your promises. I have attempted to live by this decree for as long as I can remember even if it was at the expense of my own interest. That is why I will have no mercy if potential Mr.Highlander proves he cannot keep his word, whether by malice or negligence. There are no excuses, except for death or a fatal accident – for everything else there is the phone or email or any other means of communication. Not keeping his word means I don’t count as a human being, lover, friend, partner whatever i.e. I’m dispensable and not to be respected . If you keep your word against all odds you will be my hero.

(5)Tenderness & gallantry etc..

A tender guy will disarm me – I would be putty in his hands. In this age of ‘equality’ of the sexes, I am not ashamed to say a gallant real gentleman would score better in my eyes.
He would be available no matter how busy ( or find a way to make it OK that he is not).Of course I 'm not selfish and I do understand when someone is busy yet certain people have that certain je ne sais quoi , amazingly they know what to say and what to do at the right moment. Maybe they are just more finely attuned than the other mere mortals ;) .

(6)Hard working and smart

Intelligence is a prerequisite, dumb guys please abstain. Note that this does not include all intelligent men , I'm sure you've heard of emotional intelligence - so a high quotient in that is definetely a plus, because he would be attentive to my wants and needs and safety as I would damn ( oops excuse the profanity) sure be doing that all along ( comes with the territory lol ).
He should be willing to work hard to achieve his dreams and I would be supportive but he should be supportive in helping me achieve mine. He would be able to teach me something I don't know and humble enough to want to learn from me as well.

(7)Sharing

If we’re gonna share intimacy and conversation then it is only fair to share household responsibility and raising kids i.e.and equitable division of labour. The better we share the more we have time to be together.

(8)Physical

Good hygiene and grooming is a given , if you’re willing to take care of your physical shape I will take care of mine too. If you have a great butt and legs ( or lips ) don’t be shy about it . Plus it’s much more attractive to go to bed with Brad Pitt ( he looks good even in a skirt ) than with the Michelin guy ( Bibendum for my American readers ) !
Although I have no ethnic or racial preferences, I find myself programmed to be attracted to a certain type more than the other, but as I said if you fit all the criteria , then beauty becomes in the eye of the beholder.

(9)Fun and adventurous

Beach , library, playground, parks, mountains foreign countries, dancing, chess, monopoly or just playing hide and seek in the sitting room with the kids. It takes a special guy to want to do these things.


Well that was my wish list and not necessarily in order of preference . So far only a couple of men have partially fulfilled the criteria- either I’m chasing windmills or real men have gone into hiding . ..lol

Hope you enjoyed that and please share with me YOUR wish lists ladies and gentlemen ..... I don't discriminate so if you are gay or bi you can be anonymous and tell about your ideal second half ;)

UPDATE 10-8-06

Well some of your comments have uncovered some other characteristics :)

- I like the modern but macho man ( hand's on guy as someone said below)
- An ability to make decisions is a plus
- if he compromises I will too.

'tis not perfection I seek as that is a Godly attribute , 'tis who with his imperfections would still be perfect for me. Not looking for that prince on the white horse I guess but forr the one who will bring the glass slipper that fits ;)

73 comments:

removedalready said...

Highlander,

haha...wow, what an entry... I'll need time to think about my mr right.
*************************************
I'm curious and as you know curiosity kills the cat! ;p

You seem mature (thinking wise), it's a compliment, and very intelligent, I wonder, about your age? (Remember, I don't know what you look like, but I'm sure you're gorgeous like the rest of us! Haha...)... You can e-mail me, if you don't want to reveal your age! I didn't reveal mine either, I think!

Thanks for visiting my blog and commenting.

Hope to hear more from you and to meet up with you in Tripoli, 2008.

Chris in MB said...

That's a pretty good list; I especially like the "Extensive Culture" portion.

"...degrees are not a proof of refinement and culture they are merely a tool and a guide. The principal part is the ambition to accumulate knowledge about all sorts of interesting topics and the will to share it. "

EXACTLY!
This also applies to one's intelligence & "practical" education as well.
What's more significant; working 3 or 4 years to get a degree when you in your 20's or spending a lifetime actively educating one's self? I've run into many so called educated people who have no desire to learn anything once out of school, no passion for learning or life. Their idea of learning something new only involves attending a course or class that contributes towards some formal certification or job opportunity.

Hey, what about a practical "hands on" type of guy?!?
Many women, that I know at least, really appreciate a guy who can handle everything from fixing a leaky toilet & tuning up the car to building a new home. In other words, the sort of man who if abandoned in the wilderness would survive for more than one day, hands on practical. It's not so much a convenience issue but more of an indication of someone's versatility. Almost a modern equivalent to the macho "hunter & gatherer" male character traits sought after in the past.

Anyhow, sorry for being long winded.
Been lurking for awhile. Thought I'd speak up for once.

Anonymous said...

I guess Craig is out of the running then HL.... ;)

Muwaaaah........... muwaaaah......muwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Redneck

Trabilsia said...

Thanks for changing the topic.
Now you have mentioned what qualities you want your ideal man to have, which is a pretty long list Highlander !! Nothing personal .
Anyway what about young men and what they look for in their future ideal women ??I'm wondering how long the list will be??!!!
Why has no-one thought about having a match -making blog ??!!

Libyan Warrior( The King Of Al-Andalaus) said...

LMAO!!!!!

Dude craig is most definatly out of the running my redneck friend, craig is not a man.lol. In anycase, highlander hit the nail on the head, I want the samething, except the adventure part, I am a homebody.lol. I am also a hopeless romantic. Personality is most diffently abillion times more important then looks, its about 85% of the equation when I am looking for a women, I also like strange ones who are unique and odd, ones that make u see things diffently, artsy liberal chicks rock, intelectual chicks rock, I am not for the Prom Queen, i am for the nerdy girl in the back off the class speaking to the frog in Biology, yes I have met a girl in the back of the glass, who has conversations with a frog, she is totally awsome, i also met one who speaks to walls, and One who belives that Armegedon is approaching any moment now. Yes odd birds are the best, i hate boring women, who are into fashion and make up, u know ditsy chicks, i love smart intresting girls, with brains. I love left brained women, and open minded chicks. I love girls who are into politics, and history, thats a must, a girl also has to be a Muslim, I dont care what kind, sufi's are the best.lol. no Fundementlist closed minded wackos, if she is into metal, DD, comicbooks, rummeging threw old used looking for hidden treasure, then that is a super plus. thats about it, I dont demand much, a girl just has to be her self, she has to be a 100% real, she has to love me, and thats about it. Anyway all u people checl out my band, when Yall can at.

myspace.com/agurzil1
(lol. Shameless Self Promotion, i know)

Highlander said...

Redenclave sweetie:) you are very pretty we saw your photos on your blog ...as for your age he he he we can make an educated guess too .I look forward to your Mr.Right input.Thank you for the compliments - the 'intelligent , mature' part is my favourite. You would be surprised at what I look like lol, Soraya the Syrian bloggersknows, so does Iraqispirit and few others ( you know who you are ;) ). But I did not think my looks should be an important item on this blog - so I never emphasized them .However in marriage ? yes they would be a great bonus lol.Maybe when I get married I'll make a blog with my photo and that of hubby and the kids :)

You are welcome I love your blog it just takes so long to download for me ...and I've already met some bloggers and look forward to meeting more, so yay for meeting you in Libya in 2008 !


Hi Chris and welcome to my blog, glad you decided to come out of the closet and comment.

Hmmm yes the 'hands on guy' would be a plus too, you have reminded me that I want my man to know how to pitch a tent and gather food when we go camping and to survive in the wild...ok how do you get the office types to get these skills ;) or should I choose someone who has done his military service ? or a DIY course ?

Redneck :) is that what I think it is ?

Hi Trabilsia , you are welcome , I don't know what young men want but I know what many Libyan men want and found it disapointing , hence my long list ... I am not a trophy doll to be hung on his arm , or asked to refrain from some activity because of his insecurities :( .... but I have not lost hope , finally the Libyan male bloggers are showing me that things can be different.

Matchmaking blog eh ? we've been talking about it Craig, NBA and I as NBA wants to marry an Arab hottie :)

LW I like Metallica do I qualify :)

Libyan Warrior( The King Of Al-Andalaus) said...

Hey Highlander.

Dude u qualify even if u dont like metal cuz u r fairly intelegent, and u have educated opinions, which are well balanced, and articulate. But I am geussing u r not intrested in a 19 year old.lol. Metallica is a very boring band, Ofcourse I jam the classics( killem all- Black album) but they are waaaaaay over rated, u gotta check out some cool stuff, i am listening to a lot of nordic stuff, lots of Viking metal, i am also listening to alot of Mid-east folkmetal, which rocks, also jamming some good ol American MetalCore. Anyway, sorry Libyan men do not suit u, i have no idea what they want, I am geussing they are faitly shallow and brainless, what can I say, "Trophy Dolls".lol. How very boring, and how very stupid, its a shame that this is what men back home look for, surley Libyan Women have something else to offer, intelectual discussions on matters of importance, oh well, they dont know what they are missing.

Ghazi Gheblawi said...

this is really a very interesting subject, since I was 18 y.o I had many lists for my dream girl, I kept changing them each year, now that I am 30, it can either become more complicated or easier, it all depends on me getting fed up with the company of myself, here is a brief list:
1. Moral values are important for me more than being religious.
2. Intelligence is very important, as I can't stand dumbness, either it was from a man or a women; I used to be more tolerant but not anymore.
3. Wide cultural knowledge is important, I like a girl who challenges me in her knowledge, especially in reading, I am book worm and I despise people who don't read.
4. personality: I get intimidated by a strong independent women, I don't want to get stuck with some body who wants me to become her father, or get clumsy in doing simple tasks, I need a partner not a dish washer or children factory.
5. Looks: it comes after all this, but its above all the first gate to see what’s inside a person, its not the matter of being good looking but maintaining that after marriage, some think that its not important after that, I don't want to wake up one day to find myself hooked up with what looks like Alien.
6. She believes in me and in my work, as I have many carers and interests I would like her to believe and support what I do, especially the cultural and literary ones.
7. It would be great, if she speaks her own mind, she has her opinion on life, can challenge me in conversations, not in the confrontational negative sense, but in a positive active way.

Sorry for the long comment, I just got carried away. Thanks

Anonymous said...

Curt from Houston says:

Highlander, While all of these traits are admirable and worth perusing, have you ever given consideration to the aspect of a man who will physically put himself between you and your children and harms way?

Highlander said...

Hi Ghazi :) I like your list no it's not too long I wish the other guys would speak their mind as well. Reading you and a few other male Libyan bloggers I am gaining some hope that all is not lost for Libyan men .Thank you.By the way have you found anyone with these characteristics ;)

Curt from Houston : Hi Curt , I know you read my blog but I wish you would comment more often. Still I'm glad to see you today.

You ask "have you ever given consideration to the aspect of a man who will physically put himself between you and your children and harms way? "

Yes- I thought that would be a given as I would do the same.
You see Curt, if he is going to be patient with me and with my imperfectness and and eccentricities and is willing to humour me on adventure trips, share the houselhold chores and care about me , then I am sure he will defend me and our kid(s) with his life gladly. Gosh that makes me sound like a hopeless romantic ...what do you think ?

Ghazi Gheblawi said...

Thanks Highlander for commenting, as for finding a person with these criteria, once a long time a go I thought I found her, but things were not possible, as I say sometimes to myself when I am carried away with my emotions, if time was different and the place was different, my life would've been different too. Guess I will need to wait more to find my other better half.

Non-Blogging said...

It's true that I promised I guess three days ago to refrain from commenting anything here for some time. Well, time to reconsider my promise temporarily now that this post has nothing to do with the certain issue I got tired of. If it's lovemongering, I'm almost always ready to tell the truth to all interested readers here ;-).

I think Highlander's list is very well-thought. A couple of things I wouldn't agree with myself - such as associating spirituality and faith in God automatically with peace and no suspicions. One only needs to read Mideast blogs to find out that it's often people with a strong faith in their God(s) who often are not at peace with anybody. Myself, I certainly don't claim religions are bad (there are also very intolerant Atheists around) but experience shows there's no automatic connection between faith and peace of mind.

All I wrote above is anyway just a side issue. I basically have a couple of problems with lists like this. The first and less important thing is that although descriptions such as this are good and in Highlander's case certainly well-thought, they don't always have a connection to reality. How many times have all of us seen somebody listing the ideal characteristics in a partner yet pick up an idiot and how many times have we seen people theoretically matching the wish list left stranded because of a very minor and trivial minus?

The even bigger problem is in my opinion that lists like these sound like demands. I mean, not like Don't ask what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country, rather Don't ask what you'll get from me but what I'm allowed to demand from you.

Absolutely no insult to my favourite blog hostess Highlander who will surely be a perfect imperfect wife and mother to somebody inshallah :-) but if we read the post, we mostly learn this is what she wants or prefers but what we can read about what she can give to that perfect partner is that she's imperfect, keeps her word and wants to do her part of the household duties.

Imagine if we started writing job applications like this - a long list of demands regarding salary, holidays, lunch vouchers or the like but would only write that we're quite OK as employees and don't want to let the other staff members do all the job. Guess we wouldn't get too many calls for an interview ;-).

The imperfect man I am myself, the ideal Mrs. Non-Blogging just needs to be a couple of things some of which I'm already flexible with. What they are isn't important here and now. The humble guy I am I can't expect the ideal partner to be any more perfect than I am. And the realist I am, I certainly don't think I could be the prince on a white horse giving the ideal girl a ride towards sunset. Hah.

Highlander, when I did my military service, I event slept in a tent we pitched in -20 C and lots of snow. Though we weren't archaic hunter-gatherers (the food was served), would that qualify me as a hands on guy LOL?

At least few Libyan men can boast about the same ;-).

And no, this is not a proposal to become Mr. Highlander, just a sidenote.

Modern Pharaoh said...

Perfect, I'm your man...lol
http://modernpharaoh.blogspot.com/

programmer craig said...

I got disqualified by LibyanWarrior and the Palestinian redneck!? You guys just don't like fundamentalist jewish christian crackers, do you? :O

NBA, good comment... I don't agree with you about the most "faithful" being the least peaceful, though. A spirutually healthy person will be peaceful and giving by nature. Those devout members of religion_x that you and I seem to have sucha problem with are not spirutually healthy, which I think means that eitehr their religion is flawed or their practice of it is. Or both :)

Anyway, glad to see you on to a more interesting topic than the mideast crise, Highlander! I'll try to comment more later on with a wish list of my own I guess :)

Maya M said...

Highlander, remember that you asked me what I think about you marrying a Westerner? Let me answer now: I don't think this would be a very good idea. First, as I wrote before, I think huge cultural differences are likely to make a marriage less stable (the same in fact is true for any huge difference, be it in age, educational degree or material status). Of course there are exceptions and there is no recipe for a happy marriage anyway, but this is the rule.
Second, current Western culture is characterized by secularism and constant TV brainwashing. This leads to a spiritual crisis, because too many people fill the gap left after decline of faith with crap from TV ads and shows. The result: a hedonistic (decadent, as Islamists call it) culture which values "success" (measured entirely in money and position in society) and pleasure. The wish to extort from life as much as possible while contributing as little as possible evolved from a sin to an aspect of natural human egoism to normal and now to a kind of moral rule (people not living this way are often regarded as fools and outsiders). Maternal instinct saves women from the extremes of this trend, but many men reach the end of the road. Because marriage is all about duty, they of course are very reluctant to marry. But even if they do, their uncontrolled and proud egoism won't let them become good husbands and fathers. Of course not all Western men have this defect, but for a woman not grown inside Western culture it would be more difficult to detect it in time or to mount effective counter-action.
Third, prejudice can interfere. Even if the man himself doesn't hold it, he may be influenced by his friends or relations (men often are too susceptible to outside pressure). Egyptian-Canadian Jem (she moved her blog, I don't know its present URL) once wrote that she had a Catholic boyfriend but his parents messed and separated the couple. They couldn't see in Jem the good things their son saw, because she was from another religion and her mind, although sharp, was "tainted with the irreversible mark of otherness".
In fact, no Westerner can qualify to become Mr. Highlander, because you reject atheists right from the beginning (poor Non-blogging!), and believing Christians and Jews would refuse to convert to Islam. I don't know where it's written that Muslim women may not marry non-Muslim men, e.g. Leilouta regards herself as a Muslim but has married a non-Muslim.
Anyway, I think that regardless of lists of requirements, you will recognize the man when you see him.

Non-Blogging said...

Craig,

I don't agree with you about the most "faithful" being the least peaceful, though. A spirutually healthy person will be peaceful and giving by nature.
Those devout members of religion_x that you and I seem to have sucha problem with are not spirutually healthy, which I think means that eitehr their religion is flawed or their practice of it is. Or both :)


Craig, nice to see you back here! I was almost about to send you an e-mail to urge you to participate in this vital discussion but you were faster than my typing.

Almost completely agree with you, by the way :-). I might have expressed my thoughts in a cryptic way but I didn't mean to say the most faithful are automatically the least peaceful. Just wanted to point out that many people genuinely believe they're faithful but completely lack peace of mind and empathy and in outsiders' eyes have perverted their religion. Needless to name people here, so the discussion won't turn to a political debate. The same goes for militant Atheists who spend too much of their time mocking religions just for the sake of it. But I think there's no automatic correlation between being religious and having empathy and peace of mind. Among the people I've known myself I couldn't pick up the good and bad ones based on their faith or lack of it.

Maya is hard trying to discredit Craig and me in the eyes of all Arab hotties ;-). No problem. I hope they're adventurous enough to try to become statistical oddities LOL.

By the way, I didn't say I'm an Atheist.

removedalready said...

My list:
-someone who adheres to his principles / religion. Who does not look down towards others.
-knowledgeable and does not feel insecure just because your partner is a PhD holder.
-worldly (experience of life), traveller and enjoy exploring and does not mind losing his or her way in the city etc.
-who is not dependent on his partner, can stand on his 2 feet. and can support the family (children if any, time is catching up ;P)
-I am not fussy about nationality or race or skin colour, as long as we're able to communicate with one another, able to express our desire, dissatisfaction etc. Able to speak in English...But I don't mind learning other languages...
-freedom-to do what I want eg study, give me my space. I am not forced to do what I feel is not right or not interested in!
-faithful and he does not need to be Mr Romantic. Just be yourself
-nice set of teeth, doesn't have to be extremely fit -6 packs and all. As long as you are nice to look at is fine with me. Neat and smells good! Pimples? Fine..I don't have flawless skin myself!

No one is perfect...basically that's it, but I guess, I am being too ambitious. No one would fit this criteria, no one who is interested in me anyway... so that's my fantasy...

Adam said...

Thanks Highlander for this bit of fresh air! And Non-Blogging you Euro-softie! Thanks for noticing my absence from that war thread. I was sailing for a week and completely disconnected from the net. Pretty healthy sometimes I daresay.

One thing strikes me as I read these comments. Are all of us single? OK OK, perhaps not all. But it seems that a – forgive me now - disproportionate majority of us are single. Scary…




Maya has a point, and important too, but I am not so sure that cultural differences are an absolute no-no. They may be a little bit risky, in both of the ways that she mentions. But if you feel certain about a person, if every instinct tells you this is the one, then cultural differences could actually strengthen a relationship. Because in such a relationship you start off by weathering out a storm. And hardships, normally, glue you together.

As for peer pressure, if you have to chose between intolerant friends and a tolerant spouse, something’s gotta give. And family pressure, yes tolerant families are surely a great help.

”The wish to extort from life as much as possible while contributing as little as possible evolved from a sin to an aspect of natural human egoism to normal and now to a kind of moral rule (people not living this way are often regarded as fools and outsiders).”

I sadly agree, in the Western World many people live this way. (And I am happy that some do not!) And it is sad to see that this sort of “culture” is even more prominent in the recently freed Eastern Europe. I do not know about Bulgaria but we can look at Russia, Hungary or Romania where this newly won freedom has led to a blatant material egoism. Too bad they didn’t take the other road while they had the choice.

I also have to agree with Non-Blogging. Just because I do not subscribe to any religion in any book does not make me an atheist! I do believe in divinity. I also believe that the exact form of this divinity is beyond human comprehension, thus giving it a name is wrong. Western society is highly secularized but I see a lot of people holding private spiritual beliefs without going to any church.

Non-Blogging said...

Adam,

Nice to see you back. Maybe all of us would deserve some sailing days for a while or get a life by some other means ;-).

Also, it's very nice to see that a fellow Euro-softie in action. We Old Europe wimps certainly don't hate God or believers because we can't have too negative feelings towards anything.

And I haven't even said that I wouldn't believe in God. I guess the only information I've given out about my religion (or lack of it) is that I'm not a Muslim. Actually, the rest isn't even important here in my opinion.

redENCLAVE,

I liked your list a lot. A good combination of well-thought idea(l)s and humility - with the acceptance that you're willing to be flexible if you meet your Mr Right. Perhaps learn his language, accept him as he is and get used to his pimples. With this attitude you deserve to find that Mr Right definitely! Also, I think what you're looking after is not that prince on a white horse but just a guy slightly above the average (which you deserve of course). Good luck for the search!

removedalready said...

Non-blogging:
Thanks for your comments. To tell you the truth, I'm not searching or looking. In fact, I could say I'm very selfish, I love my life, being single, having not to worry about in laws and arguing whose house should we go to during festive season (his family or mine).

Age is catching up, so the possibility of meeting mr right is a bit difficult unless they like older women ;) plus, it wouldn't be fair for your children for having elderly parents who can't take care of them... that's the sacrifice I would make, so that the kids would not suffer, too many orphaned children in this world, street children, no food, roof on their head & not enough TLC. A pity. I would rather adopt them!

Adam: I guess most are single, by choice (either single with a partner & not ready to commit or as in single, single ha ha). I believe some, I'm generalising here, would share my point of view that they are able to live on their own esp the women, the so-called weaker gender, they are able to stand on their own two feet.

Trabilsia said...

When we list what we would like Mr./Miss Right to be , our expectations of him /her, we forget about fate and sometimes even the so called list becomes nonsense !!!nothing personal mind you )

7mada said...

Sorry for being off-topic, but I had to post this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249JaIaubVw

removedalready said...

7mada
thanks for sharing

Highlander said...

7mada what happened to your blog? why is it inaccessible :(

7mada said...

Ahlan Highlander, I decided it was bad etiquette to own a blog and not to contiously update it. Thus I deleted it, however I still find time to enjoy reading your blog and many others.

Maybe soon I'll InshaAllah have an updated, brand-spanking new Blogg with pics etc.

tommy said...

LybianWarrior rocking out:

http://www.pinvillage.com/albums/album47/Copenhagen_Viking_Playing_Guitar.thumb.jpg

Libyan Warrior( The King Of Al-Andalaus) said...

LMAO: Yeah Dude, like a Fucking Viking.lol. onward to Valhalla, Nordic METAL RocKs. Dude I cant get enough of that shit, I have been a fan of the scandanavian scene since i was like shit 13-14 years old.lol. Very gets old, i love it man, especially Amon Amarth.lol. What happened to the west, why did everyone go Gay.lol. where is the fury of the Norseman??? Its fucking sad. I mean Arab Warriors are raging like its 700.lol. Shit man we are as bad ass as ever. Its really sad to see that the Kikes have taken over your civilization, its so sad, I feel bad for every Western male, because they have been reduced to women, the homosexuality, the perversion, the feminsts, the Jews, its fucking sad, what would the great Germanic Warriors of old say if they where here today? no Honour, no pride,no social structure, no patriarchy, the women are acting like men, and the men act like fucking women, fucking sad, man. I personally belive islam will revive Western manhood. Christanity did wonders for the norseman, the norseman, is a fucking giant a fucking beast. The Jew has fucking castrated the Norseman, he has made him his bitch monkey.lol. Sad, oh so Very Sad.

Non-Blogging said...

LW, you must check this site:

http://www.metalisrael.com/

Lots of information proving that Jews haven't castrated the tough guys but they seem to be tough metal warriors themselves :-).

I hope the day will come when your band will tour with a similar-minded band from Israel. I'll visit you backstage then and make sure the first rows in the hall are full of black-clad Berber metal hotties raising their fists in the air for you!

Highlander said...

Ghazi :) I had a look at your blog , you really are a nice person ( and handsome as well ) , so I'm sure you will find the person you are looking for one day and that would either fit all the criteria or whom you would love so much that you would change your criteria for her :) . Inshallah

NBA ;) I'm glad you are back commenting we missed you ( well I missed you too he he he) , now if Craig can come backs as well - paging programmer_ Craig ! anyone seen him ?
Yes NBA enjoy the current post as the other style is coming back with a vengence ...
In response to your comment I wanted to remind that this list is basically a reply to question sent by many of you in my emails - so maybe those who have not commented have found the answers they were looking for ;)
Plus my ideal characteristics may not be ideal right >? just personal taste lol
Of course I'm willing to compromise if the guy is worth it and compromises too ...
So I'd like to disagree these are not demands just preferences , things that turn me on let's say , so you won't read what I have to offer because I'm not advertising myself . If I wanted to do that I only have to put a photo ( how modest eh ) and you would see the profile views double in 24 hrs ( just joking ).
Talking of job applications when I was in high school I told my friends that my suitors have to come with they file and CV ( just like a job application) so that I could judge their accomplishments lol I would reciproquate as well. No wonder they thought I was crazy . I think I was seriously considering that because some guy had lied to me. ...
NBA you qualify as a hands on guy yes ;)

As for the Libyan men they will boast pitching tents in the desert at the opposite end of the temperature scale


Hi Modern Pharaoh , NBA above says he is not proposing , but you seem to do so :) .. welcome to my blog . It's your first time here eh ? You certainly fill some of the criteria ....( hmmm I'm thinking )

Programmer _Craig , we are still waiting for your list my friend.
I agree with this statement from you "A spirutually healthy person will be peaceful and giving by nature. "
I also agree with the first part of this statement : "Those devout members of religion_x that you and I seem to have sucha problem with are not spirutually healthy, which I think means that eitehr their religion is flawed or their practice of it is. Or both :)" , but beg to differ on the second part, only their practice of the religion is flawed Craig don't even let anyone convince you of anything else. God is perfection !


Maya , I'm glad you commented here too, you always have a personal touch
This post is not about me marrying a Westener, it's about the readers who were curious of what I liked hoped and dreamt of in a man and I tried to answer their very specific questions mind you .
Who said the spiritualism I am seeking is limited to only one religion ?
It is interesting what you say about the WEst but you do paint a bleak picture and I've seen a better one :)

Jem's in-laws are racist!

Who said the spiritualism I am seeking is limited to only one religion ? who said anything about converting ? But I do appreciate your explanation that if the guy I marry fits all these criteria and is Western the relationship in your opinion is doomed :).....I hope that is not the case though :)

NBA and Craig - you have not been disqualified don't worry ... LW you are too young for sure althoug you are such fun.

Adam nice to see you here ....welcome back to the blogs
- yeah a lot of us are single ...
"But if you feel certain about a person, if every instinct tells you this is the one, then cultural differences could actually strengthen a relationship. Because in such a relationship you start off by weathering out a storm. And hardships, normally, glue you together." - agree 100%

"I do believe in divinity. I also believe that the exact form of this divinity is beyond human comprehension, thus giving it a name is wrong. Western society is highly secularized but I see a lot of people holding private spiritual beliefs without going to any church."

That makes you spiritual in my book.

Redenclave Sweetie , I reall hope you have that nice man - you deserve the best !

Trabilsia- I believe in nasseeb too my dear :)

hi 7mada thanks for the link, and as for blogging - you don't have to keep to a certain schedule, just do what you want yabni it's YOUR blog and it was a place where I could ask about you :( now I don't have that - and we miss you.

Tommy :) where is your list ?

LW if only you can just stop using the F word , otherwise you are perfect ya man !

I am curious to see Schlemazl's list too...

removedalready said...

Highlander

I can't wait to read your next post. What about more pictures of Libya...hehe...libyan culture...

Non-Blogging said...

Well some of your comments have uncovered some other characteristics :)

This Highlander girl's hunger just seems to grow ;-).

- An ability to make decisions is a plus

Highlander can't make the decision whether the ability to make decisions is absolutely necessary ;-).

Not looking for that prince on the white horse I guess but forr the one who will bring the glass slipper that fits ;)

Demand or preference LOL? I mean, if that prince on an Arab horse (or Icelandic pony ;-)) brings that glass slipper which is too small, will your feet compromise or are you sending the prince away to bring fitting ones from the nearest bazaar ;-)?

Maya, actually, you're at least married which doesn't seem to be the case for many here. Which ideals did you have in your dream guy and did you compromise? I mean, most of us are talking about theory, you know the practical part as well :-).

Last but not least, Highlander, you've seen I've managed to refrain from commenting the ME situation for a week now. Quite incredible, I'm showing unexpected restraint lately ;-). So, more lovemongering stuff, please, instead of getting back to that war again.

Adam said...

Ho Ho All You Love Birds!

NB the monger of soft: you have so cleverly avoided describing your perfect woman. As have I too! I thought I would change that here & now.

Craig, missed by many here, as well as at Sandmonkey’s place. Perhaps a case of acute blogospheric overdose? I certainly know that feeling….

My dream woman? As gorgeous as JayLo and as humble as Mother Theresa. Hmm, wonder why I am single!

OK when I wake up: Intelligent, loving, and humorous, sure sure we all want that!
Highlander mentions conversation. I think that language is pretty important. I mean English is the third language for more than a few of us here but still we have a pretty decent command of it. It is important that I have a common language which I can share with my woman. A language where subtle nuances and jokes are not lost.

And then there is another quality that I am searching for. It is difficult to describe. It includes among other things gentleness, humor, spirituality, wisdom (quite different from intelligence). I see all these qualities as different aspects of, one thing, one attitude to life.

* * *

BTW, for those who care: my own hibernating little blog, which is more like a travel journal, has had a recent little revival. Keep watching this space:

http://adam1blog.blogspot.com/

Non-Blogging said...

NB the monger of soft: you have so cleverly avoided describing your perfect woman.

We Old Europe wimps tend to avoid conflicts, you know, also in love. But due to this huge popular demand ;-) I guess I now have to bow and even break my earlier promise of not commenting the ME crisis for a while.

My dream woman... Intelligent as George W. Bush... She should care for me as much as Hizbollah cares for civilian life... and she should be as disproportionate in her beauty as Israel is in its response to hostage takers ;-). Furthermore, she should stand up for justice as hard as Old Europe stands up unanimously against terrorism! And most definitely she should be able to share my lot with me as peacefully as Israelis and Palestinians share theirs with each other ;-).

Provocation, provocation... ;-)

removedalready said...

NB
My dream woman... Intelligent as George W. Bush... She should care for me as much as Hizbollah cares for civilian life... and she should be as disproportionate in her beauty as Israel is in its response to hostage takers ;-). Furthermore, she should stand up for justice as hard as Old Europe stands up unanimously against terrorism! And most definitely she should be able to share my lot with me as peacefully as Israelis and Palestinians share theirs with each other ;-).

Humm, very creative but I don't think she's that intelligent. Can she think on her own 2 feet? Or is she a puppet? What ever it I'm sure you'd have a very lovely "chat" with you so-called partner, no hair pulling or back stabbing, I hope!

Maya M said...

Non-Blogging, let me first apologize for labeling you as an atheist - you mentioned once that most Finnish don't really believe but write in forms "Christian" because it sounds better that "Atheist", so I extrapolated this to you.
My list of demands was: to be honest, responsible, caring, good professional (you wouldn't believe how many men seek a partner while being unemployed) and wishing to live in Bulgaria (because I didn't want to emigrate). Unofficially, there was another very important requirement - to be normal. Of course you can never present this request, it would be insulting! But normalcy is not so universal as it is presumed to be.
I would never marry a supporter of Communists, Nazis or Bin Laden, but neither did I require full agreement upon everything, and my husband has different views on many subjects.
Highlander, I took those requirements for converting from your earlier posts (months ago), remember that about a Muslim girl who refused to her Catholic aspiring lover because she couldn't do the required "leap of faith".
7mada, I haven't actually read your blog, just your profile while it was accessible. I don't think a blog MUST be updated very often. On the contrary, I think that if we write in public space, we'd better write only when we have to say something thought to be interesting to others; and at least for me it doesn't happen so often. I think it's a kind of pollution to fill the public space with empty words. I'm sure nobody would object if a nice blog is updated even once per month.
RedEnclave, your comment about being alone is just sad. Of course dignity requires us to stand on our two feet, but we are not made to live alone! I like you and the Darwinist in me is unhappy upon seeing nice people alone and people like war criminal Arkan having 9 kids from 5 women (and perhaps he'd make even more if somebody hadn't shot him, so doing a fabour to the world).

Adam said...

Actually I sort of forgot one important point about my dream woman. It is not really a requirement but certainly helps to spin my wheels. If she has an excellent ability/talent (widely excelling my own). It could be anything, for example: excellent chess player, a fantastic talent for music, or unparalleled gift for languages or poetry.

Highlander said...

NBA => my comment about making a decision is an understatement ;) which brings to mind another important characteristic that seems to lack in a lot of men nowadays namely civility . Not just gallantry but plain good old fashioned civility. Sadly enough and not to generalise, many men ( and women ;) equality oblige ) have just stopped being civil ...

Non-Blogging said...

My dream woman... Intelligent as George W. Bush...

Humm, very creative but I don't think she's that intelligent. Can she think on her own 2 feet? Or is she a puppet?


redENCLAVE,

If I'd prefer a puppet, I guess I would have written "independent as Tony Blair" ;-).

Non-Blogging said...

which brings to mind another important characteristic

Hehehehe, whatever we comment here gives Highlander more inspiration to boost her list of dem... sorry, preferences ;-). I guess we're now in around Mr. Highlander version 2.1 ;-).

that seems to lack in a lot of men nowadays namely civility. Not just gallantry but plain good old fashioned civility.

I can promise you if you ever invite me to a Libyan desert tour, every time there's a pool of water in the sand, I'll put my coat on that so your boots won't get wet and dirty LOL.

Adam,

Couldn't agree more! Girls with a special talent which I lack partly or completely rule! It's certainly a plus for any wannabe Mrs. Non-Blogging if she plays an instrument, knows an exotic language I don't or has any weird hobby she's crazy about, even talking to frogs like LW's classmate. I'm so fond of people who are enthusiastic about something.

Adam said...

NB dude, if I wanted an independent woman I would have written independent as the Finish government prior to 1970 :PP

Non-Blogging said...

Maya,

Non-Blogging, let me first apologize for labeling you as an atheist - you mentioned once that most Finnish don't really believe but write in forms "Christian" because it sounds better that "Atheist", so I extrapolated this to you.

No need for apologies, it was a possible conclusion you draw from cryptic material written by me.

The form thing is interesting. Except for tax reasons (if you're a member of either the Lutheran or Orthodox Church here, you pay a certain amount of your income as church tax to them and this is automatically deducted from your salary, other congregations have different ways of paying), the only occasions I've needed to declare any religion have been abroad (and in the latter cases I never needed to prove what I declared by any documents).

The thing with Finns and religiosity is very peculiar. Most are very secular and like other Protestants, very seldom go to church and if we do, it's mostly for weddings, funerals or baptisms. On the other hand, something like 85% are fee-paying members of churches which means that lots of Atheists voluntarily pay to be church members. To an outsider this might make no sense but to me as a Finn it's somehow very logical.

If you compare Finnish (or other Nordic) church membership statistics with those in Eastern Europe, for example, there's a big difference in the methodology they're compiled with (correct me if I'm wrong). In Eastern European censuses, people are asked to declare their religion or lack of it. Here, it's not about self-declaration but being a (paying) member. I'm sure for example in Bulgaria, more people believe and go to church than officially tie themselves to a faith with money, here it's the opposite.

Pragmatic Protestantism in action - who cares about your faith, taxes are more important ;-).

The same shows in the statistics about Muslims in Finland. There are several Islamic congregations here but they're all very small. Due to Islam not being as organized as Protestant Christianity, we don't then normally estimate the number of Muslims in Finland by official membership but by the origins of immigrants, thinking everybody from a Muslim country is a believing Muslim (which of course is nonsense).

Sorry for the long and uninteresting post but it's so great to write something with a content but not tied to the Middle East.

Of course nobody's interested but if someone is, here's a link worth reading:

http://www.evl.fi/kkh/ktk/english/norden.htm

Highlander/Maya,

Regarding non-Muslim men and Muslim women, even in Libya (which on the official level should be more secular than some other Arab countries) this is impossible according to the 2005 country report on religious freedom by the US Department of State. You can all read it at http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2005/51605.htm
but in case somebody for example in the country in question is blocked from accessing this dangerous information, here's the text:

The country adheres to traditional Islamic law that states: a non-Muslim woman who marries a Muslim man is not required to convert to Islam, although many do so; however, a non-Muslim man must convert to marry a Muslim woman.

So if Highlander wants me, Craig or Adam to propose, she must ask her God to convert us first in her prayers ;-).

And last but not least, I absolutely love this sentence you wrote - it should end up in a compilation of great quotations:

But normalcy is not so universal as it is presumed to be.

Non-Blogging said...

NB dude, if I wanted an independent woman I would have written independent as the Finish government prior to 1970 :PP

Adam,

There's no problem with you being a Euro-softie but could you please stop exaggerating? Myself, I would change 1970 for 1990 here ;-).

You envious foreigners always spread disinformation about my lovely country LOL.

AngloLibyan said...

what a list highlander? and obviously a very intresting subject!! all i can say is very good luck :-)

Highlander said...

NBA :) hypothetical question here ...-thanks for the link by the way - would you convert if that was the only thing Highlander asked from you, after she made her prayers ;)

Non-Blogging said...

That's a very good and complicated hypothetical question.

Little white lies are part of life. For example, in things such as visa or job applications not really every word we have to write needs to be true if we don't have a harmful intent. Say, applying to become a secretary without knowing all the computer programs one lists in the CV is in my opinion acceptable if one will learn them easily. On the other hand, getting a doctor's job without the credits for that (with the possibility to harm patients) or
applying for a tourist visa in order to bomb an airplane is unethical to say the very least.

Converting because it's demanded should perhaps be between acceptable and unacceptable. Acceptable because
in my opinion a state shouldn't play God and accordingly shouldn't prevent two people from loving each other in a way which leads to people "converting" against what they feel in their hearts. Read: the state forcing people to lie.

Unacceptable because that would mean lying to an imam, maybe lots of genuinely believing relatives and last but not least to all honest Muslims who have said their creed believing every word of it. Furthermore, and this is important, it would be acceptable if the Muslim wannabe wife accepted that this was a legal obligation but very unacceptable if one converted just because he has to but lied to the wannabe wife that he's serious.

So, I wouldn't myself condemn automatically anyone making a fake conversion if the crucial people knew it's just because that's necessary. I see that mostly as the best of two questionable options. As I take these things more seriously than your average person, I don't know if I'd be able to do that myself. Like, what would Allah think of me in afterlife if he exists and knows that I lied in my saying of the creed just to get a girl?

The ideal - although perhaps unrealistic - solution would of course be that no stupid and archaic restrictions as this existed. I also find the rule very discriminatory and patriarchal, as if any Muslim woman was so weak and unindependent that any non-Muslim man could prevent her from practising her religion.

What do you others think? I think this is indeed very complicated and interesting.

Of course there are lots of people of all religions that are a huge shame to true believers and thus far more harmful than just an ordinary guy who found a bureaucratic loophole and thought love is more important that one honest sentence.

Maya M said...

Besides legislation in Muslim countries, there are at least some cases in non-Muslim countries when the girl herself (or her parents?) require the non-Muslim man to convert. I heard that a French national soccer team player converted in order to marry a girl of Algerian origin. Also, a Bulgarian soldier in Iraq fell in love with a local woman and had to convert, although they were planning to live in Bulgaria, not in Iraq.
So, Non-blogging, if you wish a hot Arab girl but also insist to remain loyal to your faith or lack thereof, perhaps pious Muslim girls are haram for you but there still remain the Arab Christians, Muslim heretics and apostates.
Among Finland's "Muslims" many are Arabs, aren't they? Quite off-hand. Have you checked whether some of their girls post in Finnish dating sites :) ?
I've been thinking for some time, it's easy for people like me to rant against Muslim immigrants to Europe, "Integrate, you bad people why aren't you integrating?" - but if a girl of ME origin integrates so much that becomes almost unmarriable inside her community, what's the chance that a local knight will offer her a hand and a heart?

Non-Blogging said...

Maya,

So, Non-blogging, if you wish a hot Arab girl but also insist to remain loyal to your faith or lack thereof, perhaps pious Muslim girls are haram for you but there still remain the Arab Christians, Muslim heretics and apostates.

You know, I'm not only limited to hot Arab girls in my preferences ;-). And actually, I'm not desperately looking for someone. As I guess redENCLAVE wrote before, I'm also OK living on my own if I don't find a good Arab or whatever else hottie. I'm no racist, so ethnic origins usually don't matter.

Among Finland's "Muslims" many are Arabs, aren't they?

In fact, we have few Arabs here, perhaps only a couple of thousands altogether. They're certainly a smallish minority among our Muslims as well. Most of our Muslims are from Somalia, Iran, Iraq, Turkey (of the three latter I suppose many are in fact Kurds), Kosovo, Bosnia and so on. Among the Arabs, I guess, there must be a disproportionate share of men versus women. For some reason, Finnish women prefer to marry for example North African men while if our men marry foreigners, they go for Russian or Thai hotties (in very rare cases it goes the other way round).

My own favourite group of Muslims here are of course the Tatars who have lived here for decades and are a perfect example of integration of Muslim immigrants to a Western society without losing their own religion and traditions. I'd guess they're actually more affluent and better-educated than your average ethnic Finn and there's absolutely no problem with that (I don't know if there's a similar case of a Muslim minority anywhere else). Theirs is by the way the first officially recognized Islamic congregation in any Western European country.

For Highlander at least this article on the Tatars might be interesting:

http://virtual.finland.fi/netcomm/news/showarticle.asp?intNWSAID=26477&LAN=ENG

Highlander said...

NBA - Thank you for answering this very serious hypothetical question. I think your reply has been the best one I've heard for a long time on this issue.
You strike me as a very decent and romantic person - what did Adam call you ? ah a softie :)

Thank you also for all the links you provided espcially about tht Tatars.I found it very interesting and enlightening .- but I insist that hot Arab girls are the hottest ;)

Non-Blogging said...

Ah well. Believe me I'm quite decent but absolutely unromantic. Instead of cooking a candlelight dinner I'm more capable of getting people bored with lectures on such urgent themes as Finnish Tatars LOL.

Hotties rule but I can't stand extreme heat, being a cool guy from the cold myself ;-).

removedalready said...

It's true that not everyone from a muslim country is a believing muslim. Some in name only and do not practice them. As you have mentioned earlier not all christian Finns go to chirch except for important events.

Regarding conversion to Islam, as far as I know, one has to convert before marrying to a muslim, either if you're a male @ female. If this is not done, your child @ children are considered illegitimate @ married out of wed lock.

In fact the newly converts are more pioused than those who were born muslims.

Non-Blogging said...

Highlander/redENCLAVE,

Drima has a very interesting post and link to the original news item on his blog on a related topic. Check it out:

http://sudanesethinker.blogspot.com/2006/08/malaysia-awaits-nervously.html

Highlander said...

For NBA talking about conversion , what do you think of this blogger ?

http://getoutlines.blogspot.com/2006/06/conversion-stories-part-one.html

Maya M said...

Non-Blogging (if you are still here), the last part of my last comment was actually inspired by a Tatar student in Bulgaria. I knew about her from my colleague who taught her. She looked, dressed, walked and talked like any native European girl. And then one wonderful morning she came to class all wrapped in a long dress and with a headscarf. "Sudden jihad syndrome"? No, she had married and her husband requested her to dress "decently".
We began to argue about this student. Only I defended her, my colleagues bashed her for renouncing her freedom.
"But it is also important to have a family," I said, "and if she couldn't find a Tatar man who would let her free after marriage - and she knows Tatar men better than any of us here does - what could she do?"
"She could marry a European man," a female colleague replied.
Here I really got angry - the poor girl probably spent whole nights mourning her freedom, and people were talking without thinking.
"Oh yeah," I said sarcastically, "European men are known for their willingness to marry, aren't they? They just line behind single women to offer their hand. Especially if the woman is a Tatar. A European man would be most likely to start an affair with her, then abandon her and so make her unmarriable."

Maya M said...

About converts to Islam - is it such wonder that non-Muslims are suspicious to them? I think Muslims (I mean those whose grandparents were also Muslims) should also be suspicious to people converting to Islam for reasons other than marrying a Muslim.
Everybody knows that converts are much more likely to become terrorists than born and bred Muslims (the latter prefer just to TALK about becoming terrorists, like the lady you posted about and Redneck). This is because an important reason for a Westerner to convert to Islam is extreme hate to the civilization he was born in.
In Bulgaria, two converts have made headlines in recent years, both young women. One went to Iraq in 2003 to serve as a human shield for Saddam. Later she told that she usen't to believe Saddam was a dictator until in Kerballa she eye-witnessed police murdering four unarmed men in the street just because they were Shia. Can conversion be coupled with unwillingness to see the truth?
The other convert protested against being forced to photograph her face for ID papers. Our law allows a woman to photograph herself for ID with a headscarf, provided that her forehead, ears and 1 cm of the hair are exposed. This is more than enough for the 1 million "old" Muslims in Bulgaria, but not for our new Muslim. She wanted to photograph herself with face hidden! She brought her case to court, threatened to sue Bulgaria in the Strassbourg human rights court. Of course, all she achieved was to have her face broadcasted on TV.
By the way she worked as a shop assistant before converting; after it she applied to be a teacher in an Islamic Institute, but they didn't want her. I don't wonder: as a shop assistant she presumably had only secondary education, while any university, even if Islamic, is expected to hire only teachers with university education. Her application fits into the stereotype for converts to Islam: that they convert because they are losers and hope after conversion to receive things they actually don't deserve.

Non-Blogging said...

Highlander,

Quite an interesting link. I understand that lady's feelings (she has an extraordinarily lovely phrase where she writes about the burden of being an ambassador of Islam), yet I think about it differently. Asking about someone's reasons for converting doesn't automatically mean the person asking has a negative attitude towards that. It might also be just innocent curiosity - just like why did you spend your holiday in Spain or why do you prefer living in the city centre or ah you have lovely new skirt.

Like, in Islamic countries I've very often been asked about my relígion (which basically never happens here). I also remember one incident when a shopkeeper somewhere tried to convert me and another guy who sat next to me on a bus somewhere else converted me so much that he also gave me a Muslim name. Sadly enough I've forgotten that already, otherwise it would make a good Blogger ID! My point is of course that I haven't found these questions and attempts to convert a nuisance. Rather they're something to remember with a smile back at home.

Maya,

I couldn't imagine our Tatars using headscarves (outside their mosque of course). They're very Western but as I stressed earlier, also keep their faith and traditions. When the Muslims here went with the flow and had a demonstration in front of the Danish Embassy egainst the cartoons, if I'm right the Tatars' congregation didn't participate along with the other Islamic congregations here. In your terminology, that would perhaps be a choice of civilization - adaptation to the Western culture so well that even if they don't like the cartoons, they understand it's nothing to do with the Danish government and especially that there's no time machine which would enable the Danish government to ban pictures which were already published months ago. (Back to the topic again which originally brought me to this blog at that time!)

We also have some converts to Islam here, in my understanding mostly women. Always when I read their interviews, I wonder where they will be in five or ten years from now. Some seem to have quite wild backgrounds before converting. I sometimes wonder whether this conversion - going from one peculiar lifestyle to the other end of the scale - is just one phase in their lives or something lasting.

But this all is just a diversion from the main point which is that exactly as conversion to Islam should be allowed to anyone without sanctions or prejudice, leaving Islam should be allowed to any Muslim anywhere in the world which unfortunately isn't the case.

By the way, there was also a Finnish human shield in Iraq in 2003. He was from a religious Christian background. It's true I opposed the war myself and it's also true I'm too much of an Old Europe wimp to to go to a city which is being bombed, yet the best phrase in my opinion to describe those humans shields is "useful idiots": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot .

removedalready said...

NB
I've visited the blog, regarding Malaysia's decision on one of her muslim sister converting to christian and marrying a non-muslim. This is a very serious problem we're facing in Malaysia. Those who convert come from a very religious background. I don't understand how this can happen as we the muslims are not allowed to convert to any other religion. Whatever it is we don't blame the religion but the person him/herself!

Non-Blogging said...

redENCLAVE,

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly. But was your point that (1) one Malaysian Muslim leaving her faith (for whatever reason) is a very serious problem / alternatively generally Muslims leaving their faith is a very serious problem, (2) somebody who decides to leave her (or his, whatever) faith should be blamed for that?

If these were your points, I disagree. What was the phrase anyway - there's no compulsion in religion? It's blatantly wrong that a faith, whatever that is, doesn't allow somebody to leave it if s/he doesn't believe in it anymore. God simply can't like that somebody's forced to believe in him if that belief is not natural but superficial and hypocritical.

Converting to a religion or leaving that, I stress again, is a basic human right which should apply to all religions alike: Christians converting to Islam, Muslims converting to Hinduism, Jews converting to Buddhism, or Hindus becoming Atheists. Remember, the first Muslims were neither born Muslims but converted to a faith they liked for whatever reason that was.

Here, it's quite hard to leave not mainstream Christianity but churches such as Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons (which mainstream Christians don't regard as Christian churches anyway). In such cases, it even happens that the community you were earlier part of breaks all ties with you. Neither is it socially very easy to leave some Evangelical movements just because by leaving you're excluded from the community as well. This is of course very nasty and disgusting but there's no (and shouldn't be any) sanctions for that by the state. It shouldn't be up to the state to decide matters between a human being and God, it's God (if he exists) who should be the only one to decide what happens to you if you don't believe in him anymore (or you believe in him but in a different way you used to).

Highlander said...

Hi Maya,

"Everybody knows that converts are much more likely to become terrorists than born and bred Muslims "

I'm not sure which statistics show this, I might say it's slightly stereotypical as it implies that Islam makes the converts terrorists.

"This is because an important reason for a Westerner to convert to Islam is extreme hate to the civilization he was born in."

I don't think so, the Westerner may just not like some aspects of his lacking spiritual life not the whole Western civilization. You said yourself in an earlier comment that according to you Europe has been perceived to become to materialist etc.. Maybe a westerner converting to Islam for reasons other than marriage , is just like the one converting to Budhism ... he/she just wants to achieve inner peace -Zen - a balance of ying and yang .
I mean it is possible that some crazy mullah may brainwash a convert, but a human has a brain and should use it to decide what is right and what is wrong. The Bulgarian convert was like other European non-Muslim who went to Iraq to become human shields. Being a Muslims was just accidental. what about the other human shields ? 99/9% were not Muslim.

So to answer your question "Can conversion be coupled with unwillingness to see the truth?" no it cannot , because Sadam is NOT a Caliph or an Islamic leader or scholar or prophet , in fact I would hesitate to label him even as a Muslim.

Your other Bulgarian convert is a nitwit - even in backward Saudi Arabia you need to take a photo of the face to be ID-ed.There is nothing in Islam that says you have to cover your face or look like a tent.

Not all converts to Islam are loosers Maya, but maybe those are the ones who make the headlines because their story sells. However, a lot of previously loosers or lost sould do convert to Islam or become born again Christians no ?


NBA, yes I agree that asking about someone's conversion can be an innocent question as well. However, in regards to the recent events since 9/11 and the bad image projected about Islam worldwide, I'm willing to bet many of the questions she is receiving are not of the innocent type, but more of the gory type, just like the Tatar girl Maya spoke about was getting from her peers...

LOL NBA -softie you almost got converted enough to get a name , there is yet hope for you my friend.

I remember Sri-Lankan taxi driver last month in London who used the trip to Heathrow at 6am in the morning to attempt to convert me to Christianity , he was an Evangelical who was converted by an AMerican missionary in Sri-Lanka -(he was forced into it so that he can play in the school team and enjoy the benefits that the football team obtained such as financial help with studies etc) He told me a very good story which apparently was inspired when he found I was single (getting back on topic here lol ). So he spend more than one hour telling me his life story, to convince me that I should pray to get a husband as according to him I should not be single, but also that only my prayers to Jesus specifically would get me a husband!and to do that I had to convert. The guy was matchmaking ;) why is everybody trying to marry me off .. even foreign taxi drivers ?

Redenclave , I agree with you ..never blame the religion . but the human frailty, If a Muslim leaves Islam, it's between him and God , who are we to judge? usually this is just a phase and these people rediscover Islam some years down the road , when whatever it is they needed to do and made them leave it turns out to be just a sparkling mirage. Watch Hirsi in 10 years after she becomes hopefully more educated ;)

Yes NBA the state should not decide in these matters, but until then if a non-Muslim wants to marry a Libyan hottie ( all are Muslims here ) he has to go along with converting ( at least in name) if he loves her enough for that ;)

Non-Blogging said...

Maya/Highlander,

I also think that converting to Islam increases the risk of becoming a terrorist. But before Maya applauds and Highlander starts torturing her keyboard at 100mph to find the contact details of the nearest Finnish Embassy (that's in Tunis by the way, we had one in Tripoli as well but that was closed when the rest of the world started reopening theirs LOL) to protest against me ;-), that risk is so low we can't think about it seriously. You can't blame a whole group because of some rotten eggs. It's like being a born again Christian doesn't mean that you automatically start conspiring with Neocons and Zionists and nuking Iran back to the middle ages LOL.

A good example of somebody who converted to Islam and maintained his sense is our most famous convert. He never talks about religion in public by the way and converted after marrying a Moroccan. I'm not writing a Moroccan hottie because I didn't find a picture of her with Google ;-).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janne_Holm%C3%A9n

(The name looks strange here, so if the link doesn't work, try "Janne Holmén" by Google. It's worth a click.)

The guy has achieved more than most of us ever will and certainly didn't become a converted loser.

The interesting thing is then that in Morocco where the wedding was held a Muslim could marry a non-Muslim. Why can't Libya be that normal and tolerant, too?

Which leads me to another question because I don't want to limit my search for a Libyan hottie only to some token Catholics hehehehehe. How do you leave Islam in Libya and what happens if you do that?

Not a suggestion, just a question ;-).

No, I'm not planning to go along ;-), just very curious. And, Highlander, now that we're on the topic, what do you yourself think on the impossibility to leave a religion? Do you think that's OK or not? You know my opinion already.

No no no, I'm not proposing, all you jealous readers here LOL.

Non-Blogging said...

By the way, Highlander, you should perhaps really think about the kind advice the taxi driver gave to you. I mean, Jesus in my opinion fits practically all the criteria you want from your ideal man ;-).

Maya M said...

Highlander, let me first say that the taxi driver was wrong. We have a proverb, "The vineyard needs a hoe, not a prayer". No prayer, Muslim or Christion or whatever, is likely to help you find a partner, unless you are praying in a mixed congregation where praying doesn't consume all of the worshippers' attention :). But flirting while praying seems a bit too shallow even to me.
About spirituality and religion etc... The question has two sides. I wrote myself that weakened or lost belief is often accompanied by moral decline. But let me also quote S. Weinberg, "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
I think that when a single person does a very evil thing, it's not necessarily connected with his religion, policital convictions, nationality or other background characteristics, but is most easily explained by psychopathy. In rare occasions, the same holds true for 2 people, if they are strongly connected (spouses, siblings or parent and child). But if more people do an evil thing together, you have to seek a common background to explain this.
Those Libyans who believe that 6 Bulgarians infected their children with AIDS blame the entire Bulgarian nation and meet any Bulgarian with the slogan "Thank you for the AIDS". They think that if 6 people from a given society do something terrible together, then the entire society must be sick. There is no logical flaw (the flaw I find in the Libyans' reasoning lies elsewhere).
After Sept. 11, I knew that there must be a reason for 19 sane intelligent men to do something so evil (not counting their commanders and the many thousands Palestinians and others who celebrated). I knew one my friend had a Koran, so I borrowed the book to read and find out.
Now, Mr. Nasrallah has become the hero of the Muslim world because of his success in killing Israeli civilians. Can the Muslim world reach a deeper point in moral degradation? I cannot imagine, but let's wait and see, every time when I think this is impossible they manage to make another step downward. If the Devil exists and makes list of the souls who belong to him, I pity the poor fellow, he must already have arthritis from the too-intensive writing or typing.
Still, the Muslims, esp. the new Muslims, emotionally blackmail us (and tolerant people like Non-blogging give in to the blackmail). They say, "We have the sacred freedom to be or become Muslims, and you mustn't show even the slightest surprise or let alone disapprovement when you see us embracing our religion".
Eh well, not quite. Under Bulgarian law, Communist parties and the new all-hating party called Ataka are legal and everybody is free to vote for them or become their member. We the others are equally free to express our disapprovement of Communist and Fascist ideology. And if my friend tells me she will vote for one of the above mentioned parties, I would not only ask why but I would make no effort to delete the frown from my face.
Of course there are very many born Muslims and some converts that deserve everybody's respect. I wanted to mention the late Margaret Hassan, but as I opened her Wikipedia page to give the reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hassan), I read there that she was in fact no convert. It's amazing - the only admirable convert I know turns out not to be such! Is it my fault?

Non-Blogging said...

Still, the Muslims, esp. the new Muslims, emotionally blackmail us (and tolerant people like Non-blogging give in to the blackmail).

Maya, what on Earth do you mean by that?

Maya M said...

I mean that they say, "This is our holy book, it's written there that people like you are the filthiest creatures on Earth and their heads must be chopped off, we of course believe in this because it, like every other word in this book, is directly from God, but if you express the slightest criticism of our religion or us, you are intolerand bigots."
And you, Non-blogging, said that the curiosity about the reasons for converting may be innocent (not containing any disapprovement), so implying that if the curiosity DOES contain disapprovement, then it is wrong.

Non-Blogging said...

Maya,

I mean that they say, "This is our holy book, it's written there that people like you are the filthiest creatures on Earth and their heads must be chopped off, we of course believe in this because it, like every other word in this book, is directly from God, but if you express the slightest criticism of our religion or us, you are intolerand bigots."

I guess this is not a direct quote from the Quran neither anything you've ever been told straight to your face ;-). All so-called holy books of all religions surely contain nonsensical thinking like that. Don't forget I ended up originally on Highlander's blog some months ago when I vehemently defended the Danish cartoons (opposing for example Highlander's opinion) and the right of anyone to criticize any religion at the risk of insulting believers because it's a fundamental right. I got attacked for that criticism quite a lot but never gave up. I'm against all kinds of extremism and fundamentalism.

And you, Non-blogging, said that the curiosity about the reasons for converting may be innocent (not containing any disapprovement), so implying that if the curiosity DOES contain disapprovement, then it is wrong.

This is what I wrote myself and which I stand behind:

Asking about someone's reasons for converting doesn't automatically mean the person asking has a negative attitude towards that. It might also be just innocent curiosity---.

Where did I condemn disapproving converting? I don't think anywhere. I stress again that everybody should have the right to convert to any religion and leave his/her religion as well. You can also read what I've written earlier: that Christians practically have the right to leave their religion, while Muslims don't which I have rightfully criticized because leaving a religion is a basic human right. Only weak and insecure religions should be afraid of that.

I also believe that everybody has the right to show disapprovement of anybody's converting. I think I wouldn't quite do that myself (as long as I'm not the personal object of proselytizing), although I honestly don't understand why somebody would start using a scarf, veil or tent thinking that's what her God wants. However, as long as this is voluntary, it's OK in almost all situations.

And seriously, what do you mean with this blackmail thing? I've never been blackmailed to have any opinion. It would just be a waste of time and effort - we Euro-softies are softies by birth and upbringing, you don't need to blackmail us anymore ;-).

Maya M said...

Non-blogging, I apologize to you, I believe now that this is your opinion and you have not been blackmailed. I am paranoic sometimes, just see what comments I'm writing, the original Highlander's post was about the man she would love!
About my Koranic "quotes" - here are English translations of the corresponding verses:
"Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures." (98:6)(http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/098.qmt.html).
"Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost." (47:4)(http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/047.qmt.html).
Of course nobody told this straight to my face, our opponents are not so sincere when it comes to the fundamentals of Islam, but this is what they mean. I find little comfort in your thought that "all so-called holy books of all religions surely contain nonsensical thinking like that". I know of course that in the past Christians have done horrible things in the name of Christianity. This despite the peaceful nature of the New Tastement (compared to the Koran). Then, what could we expect of Islam? We are now threatened by it, not by any other religion.
I bet that Highlander cannot remember when she first learned that she and all around her are Muslims and heard Koranic verses being recited. I doubt whether she can imagine how an adult non-Muslim feels when first reading the Koran. Bulgarian poet Svintila, describing the Communist concentration camp system, titled his memoirs "The Face of the Gorgon". I'll borrow his expression: reading those texts while knowing that hundreds of millions take them seriously feels like looking into the face of a gorgon.
Our opponents think, with much reason, that most of us are too lazy to read the Koran and those few who will read it will be petrified by its content.
Highlander, about Hirsi (Ali) - to return to Islam, she needs not only to become more educated, she needs to step over the corpse of her co-worker Theo van Gogh. Among the things I liked least in the Koran was the moment when a dead believer in Paradise, seeing his non-believing friend in Hell, doesn't say, "My poor friend! Why didn't I spend more time to convince him?", but rejoyces that he has escaped the same fate. I'm used to a culture where even believers find loyalty of humans to each other more important than loyalty to the almighty God who should be able to take care of himself and his business. If God requires us to step over the corpses of other people in order to pass a test, then I agree with Terry Pratchett that we shouldn't believe in such a God even if He does exist because, by believing, we are only encouraging Him.

Non-Blogging said...

Non-blogging, I apologize to you, I believe now that this is your opinion and you have not been blackmailed. I am paranoic sometimes, just see what comments I'm writing, the original Highlander's post was about the man she would love!

Maya, as with the cartoons, there's no need to apologize for criticizing someone. You have the right to do that and certainly could have interpreted me the way you did although it was an accidental misinterpretation in this case. You know how much I support the freedom of expression. However, if I'm misinterpreted, I'm eager to use my right to correct the facts or if what I've written is something I don't agree with anymore, I'm ready to tell that my thinking has changed. We human beings do make mistakes.

So, no more apologies, please ;-).

I think I should perhaps read both the Bible - or at least the New Testament - and the Qur'an in their entireties. Might be an enlightening experience, for the better or worse.

It's of course interesting to note that one of Highlander's few non-political posts has turned political after some dozens of messages... he he... I can also blame myself on that as well ;-).

Highlander, where are you lurking? Come here and defend your posts and religion!

removedalready said...

Highlander,
where art thou?
Am missing your entries! And I'm very tired of hearing people asking me THE question over and over again! When will you be getting married? I guess that must be the question of the year if not the moment! HELP!

Anyone interested? Haha...just joking!

Non-Blogging said...

Red, I think Highlander's busy at the moment because she's already trying on different kinds of wedding dresses ;-).

Maya M said...

RedEnclave, it's natural. I began work at 23 at a place where an unmarried woman hadn't been appointed for a long time. So of course everybody was curious if and when and whom I'd marry. And some kept asking. Especially the lab technicians and sanitary workers, because they had ended their education at 20 or earlier and had married immediately. So I was already "too ripe" from their viewpoint.
However, as years were passing, they began to consider me a hopeless old maiden lady. When I was 29 or 30, they decided not to drop salt into my wound and stopped asking.
Then, I married.

Non-Blogging said...

Highlander, that wedding dress already looks good on you. No reason to try always new and new ones ;-).

Instead, why don't you just join our very interesting discussion on Maya's blog:

http://mayas-corner.blogspot.com/2006/08/war-aborted-and-why-not-to-trust.html

It's a must if you like my Euro-softie worldview created in the brain Miss Pumpkin is in love with!

Adam, you too, hop in!

Highlander said...

NBA my friend I don't need to defend Islam, God takes care of that...what I can do is explain but nothing more it is not my job to evangelise or do Dawa or proselytise....

Non-Blogging said...

So, explain then, lots of stuff here is waiting for your input!

Mister said...

Google will get a Nobel for this.