Thursday, August 24, 2006

Matchmaking in Libyan Newspapers

Still in the wedding mood , well it is summer and everyone is getting married before Ramadan which will be in one month's time. So I was reading my favourite Libyan papers, I came upon this ad section -and all of them are women :) and they are not as fussy as yours truely. ...Actually I was surprised at this advertisement..the person running this section has her email on top if anyone is interested ;).. ah soon those ladies who gauge girls at weddings won't have a job ...

Update 25-8-06

NBA asked if we could have a translation of the Arabic text and Hanu obliged :) . Thank you Hanu.


Non-Blogging said...

Highlander, I'm very interested in the texts as well but unfortunately Arabic isn't my best foreign language :-(. What's said exactly?

I guess they're not as, erm, varied/liberal/immoral (everybody can use his/her own definition here) as those on our dating sites. I think there's no place for gay/bi/adventure/looking for a couple kind of things in these LOL.

Indian matrimonials are the cutest I've seen anywhere. If some people are fussy and strict about what they expect and accept, then it must be Indian parents!

programmer craig said...

Chinese weddings are pretty elaborate and... odd... too :)

Non-Blogging said...

Sorry, Craig, English is not my native language. I meant those Indian ads, not the wedding ceremonies themselves. Never been to one, unfortunately!

programmer craig said...

Ah... well, I was the groom at a Chinese wedding so I know about those first hand! Kind of fun, but pretty strange by American standards, I think.

Hannu said...

That is very cute and hilarious, to say the least! I never expected to see such a thing in a Libyan paper.

NB, here's the translation. You'll miss some of the humor though. The ads say a lot about the culture and the mentality.

Initials: Kha, Gha (lol, I would think she did it intentionally picking the most difficult letters for non-Arabic speakers)
Born: 1968
Marital status: Divorced with a child
Profession: Employee
Specifications: Fair skin, average
Wanted: A widow or divorced; Libyan citizen; older than her; works.

Name: F Gha (again)
Born: 1969
Marital status: Single
Profession: Employee
Characteristics: Average; average height; olive skin; sense of humor; looking for marriage
Wanted: Libyan guy; works and owns a house (independent); conservative; fair skin; place of residence not important; appropriate age

Age: 29 year; female
College diploma; homemaker; attractive; from a good family

Born: 1974
Profession: Homemaker; graduate with diploma in education
Characteristics: Average height; attractive and beautiful; from a conservative family; aspires to marry a guy who fears god.

Anonymous said...

Shokran Hanu!
Yup I must admit that most of the humor is lost indeed to me. Do you mean intentional humor by the advertisers? Or perhaps the inherent humor of the whole thing?

Now all you have to do is to translate NB's ad (and maybe mine) into Arabic, so that we can publish them in the Tripoli Enquirer :)

Maya M said...

Highlander, why do you think 2 of the 3 ads specify skin colour?
Is there much diversity among Libyans with regard to this trait, and do people regard it as important?

Non-Blogging said...

Thanks, Hanu. So few demands! I thought Highlander is representative of a single Libyan girl's wishes and thus anybody placing an ad like this should in fact buy a six-page special advertisement section ;-).

Two thirds still seem to prefer Libyan guys. Highlander and Pumpkin are the disappointed/curious minority.

On a side note, something I've never understood and which I'm now asking quite seriously (laugh at me if you want). What's this thing with referring to Arabs and olive skins? The olives I've eaten are either green or violet and that's no skin colour I've seen IRL (or then the olives I've eaten are ruined during the transport). So, what kind of skin colour is meant by that and where does it come from?

No, really, I'm not joking! But you're of course free to add this to the list of the most stupid questions ever asked from you.

Highlander said...

he he he interesting questions ..ok I'm gonna attempt an answer after lunch :)

Highlander said...

Redenclave what's up with this Malaysian wedding ? it seems it is a national event ...can you blog about it ?

Hannu said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

OK Hanu I suspected as much...

Now that the Arabic for Eurosofties 101 class is starting, what is it with numeric transliterations? What sounds do they represent? 7-3-9-2 ?

as this for example from Roba's place:

il 3i9i wil 7ajar bikasro 3dami…bes il kalimat mish 7aa ti2limneesh

Hannu said...

Afwan, Adam. Well, the humor is not intentional. You see it if you are familiar with the language, and Libyan society and its standards, and have the perspective of looking at them from the outside or the other side. Makes sense?

NB, HL is not a representative of the Libyan single female species, not at all! She is the very minority. I mean that in a positive way, HL :)

When I was writing the olive-skin part, I stopped and thought that olive skin is more appropriate to use describing black people. Actually, in Libyan slang people say zaitoona, Arabic singular for olive, referring to a black person in a condescending way. Be ware, don't use the word; it is a close relative to the word nigger in English. The word we use in Arabic for olive skin is gamhi, derived from gamh, Arabic word for wheat. Gamhi is an adjective. The closest to it in English is tan.

Libyans come in all colors and shapes :) Color varies from European-like fair skin to African-like black skin, and all the colors in between. Eyes go all the way across the spectrum too. Hair does to an extent, but no redheads. The majority are gamhis though. The society highly values fair skin, and that's still sought after when picking a bride or a groom. I don't understand it; personally, I like the gamhi color and I love the depth and richness the sun gives it. But here again, almost everyone avoids the sun in Libya so not to develop a tan. Gamhis look awful without the sun, very pale and ashy—very unnatural.

Non-Blogging said...

Hanu, shukran from me, too. I was curious about the olive colour thing because this is by far not the first time I've seen the colour of the Arab skin being referred to as olive which is to me as mysterious as my fair skin to be referred to as tomato (well, when I burn in the summer, that's not so out of place anymore).

Is the sun avoided by Libyans because it's more fashionable/desired to be as fair as you can? Interesting turns this issue takes. Here, traditionally fair skin (especially on women) was much appreciated. In the agricultural society fair skin meant that the bearer didn't need to work long days outdoors (hinting that she was from a rich family and thus a desirable wife).

Of course it's now completely different, a good tan is thought to be beautiful. I don't know if that's just because people think it's beautiful or if a tan indicates the vain bearer doesn't need to work at all but can afford tanning in the summer and lying in the solarium in the winter.

Adam, I was just proofreading this when I saw your post had appeared on the screen. That's something else I've always wanted to ask!!! Thanks for being braver than me to do it ;-).

removedalready said...

Have you approached an Indian lady before? ehem ehem... based on experience? ;P (just being naughty)

Ahh, I understand the customs & tradition, the tea drinking ceremony, any red eggs? Was it held in the states or elsewhere?

Maya: I think Libyans are fairly fair or olive skin, but there are berbers, who are of dark skin.

As I recall, Libyans are beautiful, some even have blondish hair & hazzel @ green eyes. What bout you Highlander? ;)

Back to the ad, most of these women would want someone who is attractive, you should study ads by men, more descriptive. Financially stable as well.

Highlander: Oh gosh, it's the so-called wedding of the year. Scandals & rumours. He was rumoured to have a number of wives. He had just divorced his first wife before marrying siti. I guess some do not agree with her for marrying this Datuk (titled man @ woman, in this case a man). She's pretty & rich, can't she find an eligible bachelor. Well, I guess, love is blind.

Non-Blogging said...

Red, in fact I have a slightly embarrassing experience of some very very Kosher attempt at flirting with one years ago he he he!

Hannu said...

Red, Berber are usually the fairest of all Libyans and the ones with colored eyes in most cases (other than brown and black), along with those of Turkish and Greek origin. Twareg are the blacks, and depends on who is making the reference they are not always considered Berber. Twareg are the nomads of the desert, while Berber reside in the coastal and mountain areas, at least in Libya. In Libya,Twareg and Berber are not one and the same. Also, there are towns and villages in Libya where almost everybody is black (not Twareg though), especially in the south.

removedalready said...

thanks for correcting me. my apologies

Highlander said...

NBA you were asking about the 'olive skin', I would like to elaborate a little on that following Hanu's wonderful explanation.

People from NA and the Me use the term 'Gamhi' or weatish to describe the dominant skin colour in our area. My theory about the olive skin term is that it is derived from western classification of colours of people when they travelled to our part of the world and during colonization. This is mostly because of the tone of the skin, i.e. the impression of the skin colour gives you. Ask any make up artist, many Libyans are gamhis and that means that the skin undertone sometimes turns to yellowish pale or even a khaki or olive green it's. The Europeans used that description of olive skin even for the Indians and Pakistanis.

I hope I did not muddy things even more with my explanation :)

As for Maya Libyans come in all colours and shades, gamhi being the dominant, however a lighter skin tone is still more desirable for women, simply because people like what is exotic. For us it does not mean belonging to the arsticracy or the proletariat and also it does not mean being racist. In the adds the girl said she has fair skin because that is just more desirable. while the other obviously stated she would like a man to be of her colour. I think that is ok most people marry their kind although in Libya we are very mixed ;)

In Europe I've seen several shades and tones of white, some are reddish and other more toneless sort of

I personally think that mixing is beautifull.

Here is a definition by make up artist which explains a litte bit more the unconscious ( or it conscious) classification of skin colour in relation to sun.

"There are ways to determine skin tone, and you should base your cosmetics selections around the right tone:

Ruddy skin tone is associated with burning easily, but also with becoming easily flushed or pink-cheeked.

Yellow skin tones respond poorly to yellowish foundation and concealer and make the skin look more flawed than it did before.

Yellow-olive skin tone is easily identified because it's mainly found in people who tan easily and don't burn often. So if you come in from the beach a shade other than bright red, yellow-olive is you!

Olive skin tones are slightly gray or ashen, do not burn easily and have greenish undertones.

Neutral skin tone has no obvious yellow, olive or ruddy tones, nor any features of these skin tones."

Which means that we Libyans recognize each other anywhere in the world lol.

Maya M said...

It seems to me funny that the second lady writes she has olive skin but requires fair skin from her partner.

First Timer said...

Hi All,

This is my first reply here even though I'm a frequent visitor, But I've never posted anything. Anyway I couldn't help but noticing all the fuss about the olive color and everyone attributing olive to either green or black? but as a libyan, and I know there are other libyans here, what men consider to be olive color is the color of olive oil no the olives themselves when put in a transparent bottle or container you kinda yellowish/brownish. just wanted to participate :) .

Non-Blogging said...


It seems to me funny that the second lady writes she has olive skin but requires fair skin from her partner.

I guess the European equivalent of this is overweight middle-aged men looking for anorectic twenty-year old blondes ;-).

Anonymous said...

It seems that in all the commotion my little linguistic curiosity got lost, so will have to repost.

Now that the Arabic for Eurosofties 101 class is starting, what is it with numeric transliterations? What sounds do they represent? 7-3-9-2 ?

as this for example from Roba's place:

il 3i9i wil 7ajar bikasro 3dami…bes il kalimat mish 7aa ti2limneesh

Or is this what I suspect it is? Secret codes designed to sneak subv3rsiv3 messegages past the NSA & Homeland Security?

Pumpkin said...

Adma, as far as I know some Arabic letters are used in place of some Arabic sounds/letters which don’t exist in the English Language. So no. 7 represents the sound …hmm.. how should I say it? It is the second sound in the name is not like the English ha… is different. It is written in Arabic as ح . No. 6 is used for the sound Ta, I think. Because it somehow resembles the letter ط . No. 3 for the sound Ayen.. hmm ..still too difficult to get the sound.. And it is written like this in Arabic ع.

Non-Blogging said...

Shukran, Pumpkin, from my part :-). Now this mystery is no mystery to me anymore. What is, however, is why many Arabs who blog in English turn to using transliterated Arabic half way through what they're writing and then turn back to English ;-).

Just found a schoolbook example of that. Now, if writing in English is a way to talk to a more international audience, believe me, non-Arabic speakers miss half of this ;-):

Of course it's my deficit I don't read Arabic :-(.

programmer craig said...

The skin tonme thing is funny. On that muslim matrimonials site I linked for you a long time ago, NBA, most the skin tones are things like "Light wheatish" medium wheatish" "dark wheatish" "fair" etc...

Here in the US we associate "olive" skin tones with most people of mediterranean origin. It's considered maybe the best of all complexions. I'm "ruddy" myself, which means I'm kinda pink, which sucks, in my opinion :P

The only European skin tone I like is the alabaster pale skin tone which is just kind of ivory white.

Highlander, that was an excellent description of complexions you quoted, thanks!

programmer craig said...

Oh, and RE, I got married here in the US. The banquet was in Chinatown, in Los Angeles. We must have had over 500 guests and it went on for about 8 hours, and there were so many ceremonies and traditions, I could never recall all of it. It was very fun but very stressful too. I've been to about a dozen Chinese weddings now and I still don't "get" everything that's going on, because my cantonese is very poor, and it takes the fun out of it if I try and ask somebody what's going on every step of the way :)

Highlander said...

NBA that post is meant for when you don't have an Arabic keyboard and also when you are talking to your Arabic audience who knows English it's just such fun introducing Arabic in it . After a while these Arab words become part of the foreign vocabulary .. just like maboule ( crazy) become a French word for example, and other similar stuff, and just like many English words have been inserted into our spoken vocabulary...

Thanks Pumpkin you did a great job !

Highlander said...

First timer :) welcome and glad you are participating, the more the merrier ..

Non-Blogging said...

Highlander, but it's still strange and funny to me. I understand Finns (and others) who blog in their own language and sometimes resort to English words to sound, ehem, cool (at least that's what they might think ;-)). But being an Arab and blogging in English, is it then cool resorting back to your own language every now and then ;-)?

khadijateri said...

aaaahhh..... I knew it would come to this eventually... I wonder how much longer it will be until I attend a wedding from a newspaper match... hehehe... now that will be something to write about.

ps. still not able to see your posts on my rss feedreader. Can you check your settings and see if they are enabled?

Hannu said...

Maya, I think you're the one who posted about how one can get used to an ugly man, but not ugly children. That girl apparently doesn't want to have ugly children, since olive skin is a trait of ugliness in Libya.

Highlander said...

You know Khadijateri, that section in the newspaper used to be reserved for penpal advertisement so I usually skip it , but when I saw the wedding couple I thought I'd have a look , to my surprise Libyans were searching for partners there:)...
Interestingly enough in the last 4 years I've attended 3 weddings in Libya ( of Libyans of course)where the couple met online , and you know what ? they are very happy, I guess they had time to really get to know each other first without the hormone - mammal attraction ;) - also I have a few blogger friends who married this way too and one of my uni classmates just got a proposal last month after she met a guy on yahoo personals -she sent me the photo of her engagement the guy is gorgeous in his navy uniform !

Highlander said...

Hanu :) I'm not so sure that olive or tanned skinned is a sign of ugliness in Libya, because although we come in every colour the 'olive skin' is the majority. People like what is 'rarer' that's just more attractive because it is different- and what is different for us is the fairer skin that is all. It does not necessarily mean that we think of olive skin as ugly. If we use the same analogy then all the tourists and people spending thousands of dollars on tanning salons and lotion think that being white or pinkish is ugly ? Or those women with straight here who go and ruin it on perms to get curly her believe that women with straigh hair is ugly ?

People just like what they don't have IMHO :)
Being fairer or blond is desirable in Libya simply because that is NOT the norm but that does not necessarily mean that the person will get married - I know what I'm talking about I must have attended literally hundreds of weddings in the last two years at least.

Non-Blogging said...


What's then more or less the percentage of Libyans who are "fair", "olive-skinned" or "black"? Although I accept that the oppositites attract theory might be true, my prejudice (must use the word because I've never stepped on Libyan soil or actually even talked to a Libyan) is that those with fair skins are disproportionately (here we go again using this controversial term...) well represented in the higher echelons of the society and on the other hand, the lower you get in the social hierarchy, the more chance there is that you're black-skinned. Correct me if I'm wrong which would mean that Libya would be an exception to the very general rule.

Now, in addition to just liking what's different from yourself, might the presumed attractiveness of the fair skin have at least a subconscious connection to this as well? Note all, I'm definitely not saying the fairer you get the smarter you are (which would be rubbish and I'm a living example of that myself LOL)!

And on a side note, what kind of a parent would ever think his/her child is ugly?

Highlander said...

NBA, skin colour has nothing to do with social strata in Libya.... and even though we were a slave trading country along time ago, slaves came in all colours too. I have a berber friend who is black, and another one who is olive , whil the third one is very very fair... lol we Libyans are the exception to the rule in a lot of things .I'm not sure that's so great though...Plus Libyan society has changed so much in the last decades..we don't really have an aristocracy here, we had the Turks ( many are fair) who intermarried here, but not really an aristocracy..

Hanu or Suliman may know more and correct me

PS Hanu I know you meant well by saying I'm not a typical Libyan ;)

Non-Blogging said...

Highlander, you really really mean that fair- and wheatish-skinned people are not disproportionately represented in the upper social strata in Libya and blacks are not overrepresented in the other end of the spectrum? Seriously, if it were like that, among all the nations of the world, Libya would be as far as I know the only model where it works like that.

Knowing that the official Libyan viewpoint is that in fact Libya is the only democracy in the world, we must of course accept that some countries are in fact very very peculiar ;-). Peculiar for the good viewed officially from the inside and just peculiar from the outside LOL.

Hannu said...

A quick note (haven't had my morning coffee yet!)

HL, to my knowledge and based on first-hand experience, Libya is not a society that accepts the different let alone desires the exception. I don't agree that Libyan like fair skin just because we don't have many of fair-skinned people. Libyans use the term nedeef (clean) for the fair skinned. And yes it has to do with the perception of whites being cleaner and superior, and prettier, to olive skins and blacks.

As for the black Berber friend. Black Berbers are originally slaves owned by Berber families. With time, those slave families were kind of adopted by their owners and some even bear the owners' family name.

Slavery was widely spread in Libya, even during the Senousi era, I believe. Some of those slave families are still known to have been slaves of this family or the other and sometimes are still referred to as so.

My point is, that turned not be so quick, favoring fair skin has to do with the perceived status from those days back then of slaves and non-slaves, clean and not-so-clean.

Hannu said...

HL, no I can't access your Shebsheb Zanouba comments page. Guess it has to do with blogger rather than the blogs.

Highlander said...

"As for the black Berber friend. Black Berbers are originally slaves owned by Berber families. With time, those slave families were kind of adopted by their owners and some even bear the owners' family name".

Hanu, yes I knew about that because I was surprised that they had the same family surname and so made research about it and asked the dear old people from my tribe - that's the best way to learn about Libyan history. And although the word 'nedef'= clean is still used sometimes nowadays to describe a fair reddish person ( they may even say 'a7mar' = red ) . There really is nowadays a great mix up of the population , where being white or fair does not necessarily mean being at the upper end of the spectrum , simply because the olive are the majority and so you will find them in all the strata's of the society. In my experience - Libya is a classless society, and though many Libyans are a tad bit racist, I don't think it is in the bigotted sense of the word but more in the xenophobia kind. I hope you will come back and visit some day and find how those olive skinned girls & guys are quite good looking ( even though I'm off Libyan men lool ).

Dear Libya is not all negative Hanu, and we certainly should not desert it to those who want it for themselves , after all it is your heritage and mine too :)

As for not accessing my top post - I think it is a problem with blogger because as I told you on your blog I could not access your top blog either ( the comment section). Aah blogger has its quirks from time to time but I love it !

Hannu said...

Yes, HL, Libya is a "classless" society, whichever meaning you want to take for that :)

I know how attractive olive-skinned people are; I'm one of them :) I'm not of the opinion that fair skin is better, not at all. Actually, in most cases, skin color has nothing to do with beauty. And I didn't say that skin color denotes society strata in Libya nowadays. The inherited perception from those old days resulted in equating fair skin with beauty. That's all. You go back to the roots of this perception, and you'll find what I'm talking about.

And slavery is not a matter of ancient history or the far past in Libya. About two years ago, we got together with some Berber friends, from Zwara. The lady, who was born in the 70s, was still referring to some as "3beedna", our slaves.

Now to your words "Dear Libya is not all negative Hanu, and we certainly should not desert it to those who want it for themselves , after all it is your heritage and mine too :)"

I don't know how that fits in the discussion. We are discussing the skin color preference in Libya. I didn't say Libya is all negative, nor did I imply that. I talked about facts and history. If that made you read that I was implying Libya is all negative, then be it, you read what you want from the facts. To me it does not. As for deserting it, my actions speak louder than my words :)

Highlander said...

Hi Hanu :) , you're right I'm not sure exactly why but I was reading negativity into the words, especially in conjunction with the original question asked by Non-blogging whether really Libyans of all colours were represented in the various echelons.

But I am appalled at that Berber old lady saying '3ebeedna' , that is so disgusting. I'm wondering is it because she lives abroad and time has stood still for her? ps not accusing here only asking I honestly don't know how do the people who have lived overseas since the 70s think . From my simplified and naive impression I get the feeling that they are holding on to a past and to a Libya that exists only in their imagination, and not necessarily a better one mind you (which does not mean that now it is fantastic either).

Dear Hanu I can access historical facts and litterature too, and did not deny Libya's slavery past as you must have noted from my first reply. We are not in disagreement about that, however the Libya I know now is different than the one in the 70s.

I guess we thought we were talking about the same topic while really we were running two topics in parallel.

As for my off the topic remark as you so correctly pointed out, I agree that was irrelevant to the discussion, and I should not have reacted this way towards your words.

programmer craig said...

The slavery issue in North Africa is interesting, because european whites were also held as slaves in North Africa. Not all that long ago, as well as in the distant past. The Libyan pirates in particular took many europeans as slaves during their raids on shipping. I have to say the North African views on slavery seem very democratic at least :P

North Africa is also unusualy in that it was occupied by Germans (the Vandal tribe) in pre-Arab and pre-islamic times. Not sure how that effects the gene pool.

Plus, there's the Phoenicians! And the Romans! It's probably one of the most diverse gene pools on the planet.

Hannu said...

HL, the Berber lady I mentioned was born in the 70s, so she's in her late 20s early 30s. Also, she's from what is known here as the Salmons--the Libyans who were born here in the 70s but went back to Libya soon after and are now migrating back to the US in flocks... the cycle is repeated. She's only been here a couple of years. And that was what made it more shocking to me. It was the first time I hear a Libyan talking about "their" slaves.

As to the matter of those who hold the frozen image of Libya as they left it in the 70s, that's another worthy diversion for another long discussion by itself.

I must say, HL, you're sparking off some nice topics with your latest posts. Those "mysterious" words in your posts will lead from one topic to the other. Is it Zeleiz and teyeg next? :)

PC, yes North Africans traded in white slaves too, very undiscriminating! I believe Twareg traded in white slaves; role reversal kind of.

Highlander said...

Thanks Hanu for the explanation, I thought the lady was 70 years old , my bad, ok so if this is a young woman that it is even more shocking !

Salmons eh ? maybe you could do a post about that ? I obviously don't know enough about it :)

He he he I was planning on making a post about Tasyig but I won't be the Highlander you are used to without some spice in the ME situation now would I ?

Actually i'm surprised that such mundane posts and supposedly 'fun' ones spark so much debate. Honestly ? I like it and enjoy every bit ! Thank you all as usual for making it possible.

Also the Libyans 'stuck in a time warp' would probably make a very hot topic- I expect sparks to fly off .

Maya M said...

Highlander, after you don't want to desert Libya, why on Earth are you off Libyan men?
Is it just because of your signature under the girly pact mentioned by Pumpkin? "I haven’t forgotten our little summit, where we vowed to boycott all Libyan males... I still remember our new motto: Goodbye Libyans, Hello Non-Libyans."
I guess, one of the girls had her heart broken by a man, as always happens here and there, and the party decided this nastiness was a patent of Libyan men only...
I know of a pact by a group of 15-year olds who once thought how awful it is to get old. They decided to meet again in the year they turn 40, at the edge of a particular cliff, and to jump together off it. Eh well, they are all retired now, some even aren't among us anymore, but NOT because they jumped off that cliff.

removedalready said...

I'd post the same question as Maya. Why not Libyans? Am I right to say that, you don't mind the nationality of your future Mr Highlander. As long as he has the qualities you like in him.
If it is, I believe we are in the same boat. I don't know if this is due to us having lived abroad and meeting all types of people!

Highlander said...

Hi Redenclave & Maya :) as usual you were the only two who picked up on that tiny detail ;) ( no one noticed I guess ). I find your analogy of the pact those little girls did quite touching Maya. To answer yours and Red's inquiry (about myself at least) I would say very simply that I don't mind any nationality because I excluded non-Libyans for a due to my wish to remain in Libya.Yep those Libyan suitors did no fit Mr.Highlander list, and then I woke up to realise that I was silly and arrogant to limit my scope? what is so special about Libyan men ? wonderful men are all over the world, and there is nothing in my culture or upbringing which prevents me from taking a non-Libyan mate ;)
Therefore being in these exciting times of globalisation , we can adopt his and my country. I'm not interested in immigration Maya, (economic or other) otherwise I would have done it years ago-that's why I won't 'desert' Libya, but by adopting and loving two countries you can be useful to both on the ground. It is possible is it not ? Plus it is so much more enriching than just being with a Libyan guy ;).
Redenclave - LOL maybe you are right ? and maybe I have been brainwashed ....

removedalready said...

I'm sure you've seen this quote before on my blog. I think the description fits you very well.

The love of one's country is a splendid thing. But why should love stop at the border?
Pablo Casals

Your love for Libya doesn't stop you loving your adopted country.

Maya M said...

To me, "emigrate or not" is one of the most serious choices in life. And unfortunately, too many people do it practically without thinking, as with other important choices. Of course one can be useful both by remaining and by moving. But many people, possibly most people, are "plant-like" and cannot be really happy at another place. Many of our emigrants, coming back for a vacation, just keep complaining. Sometimes it's on the tip of my tongue to say that all they need to do in order to solve their grievances is to cancel their return flights... The host country is cold, the locals are mean and so on. In fact, if you listen carefully to what they say, you'll find (no need even to seek other sources) that nothing is wrong with the adoptive country and its people, except that they are different from what our emigrants are familiar with, and this could hardly be regarded as a defect.
Why "brainwashed"? The wish to remain in one's country has nothing to do with whether you find it the only (or at least the greatest) democracy in the world and other things of this kind.

Highlander said...

LOL Maya :) I meant brainwashed about the men not the country.