Saturday, September 02, 2006

The 37th Anniversary ( updated 3-9-06)

*detailed version

Yesterday was the 37th anniversay of the El-Fateh revolution. We usually have it as a public holiday, but this time it came on a Friday, so no day off unfortunately.

In my mind these types of celebrations will always be associated with the military parades which I'm a great fan of, i.e. I used to enjoy military parades from all over the world.

I recently stumbled unto this book which I would like to recommend to novices and academics alike as it is quite relevant. Enjoy your reading.

Original version

Libya Day

Yesterday Libya celebrated the 37th anniversary of the El-Fateh revolution. I always liked these types of celebrations mostly because of association with the military parades which I'm a great fan of.

For novices and academics I fervently recommend this book it is enlightening in a nutshell. I'm enjoying every page.

19 comments:

Highlander said...

For Suliman and NBA you get your wish it's open !

Also should be less ambiguous so everyone kindly no more conspiracy theories please ;)

Suliman said...

Highlander: It certainly was no wish of mine for you to erase your original statements, I only noted that you forgot to leave them open for comments.

For the record:

Your "update" of this post is nothing like your updates in other posts. Why? Here, you deleted the original completely and the comments made by others on it. In your other updates, you simply add information/clarification and don't delete any of the existing comments. I think, you could have stuck with your previous pattern and just clarified whatever you felt needed clarification. Clearly, you felt a need to depart from your pattern.

And for the record, here are my original comments on the post that was here under the title "Libya Day":


Hey, HL, it looks like you forgot to enable comments for others, including Libyans, on what you called "Libya Day." Maybe it's just a Freudian slip that people are told what their day is but prevented from commenting on it! Par for the course. I believe it is a great dishonor to celebrate the armed takeover of power by a confessed, condemned criminal dictotorship.

I was also curious about your mention of the military parade. Does Gaddafi actually have anything to parade anymore? Is he allowed to parade it under the terms of his disarmament and surrender to the US? I thought, all that scrap metal is now piled up at an Oak Ridge exhibit.

Do you also consider April 7th "Student Revolution Day," as the criminal dictatorship says you should?

As a Libyan, I find it personally offensive for anyone to link Libya's name to the work of a bunch of criminals who, by their own admissions, have brought the greatest imaginable distruction to the country, and for what? So they can surrender to the US witness protection program after playing along in the US sting operation.

Libya's day is yet to come, and it's still a long way out.

Highlander said...

That's fair Suliman, I don't mind you posting it here ( as I told you in the second email).

I have rewritten my post to prevent ambiguities and not as you implied here : " Clearly, you felt a need to depart from your pattern".

English is not my native language so I tend to be as they say slightly 'verbose' a la Arabic style - hmm although maybe because of that I should try and be simpler:) .
So this way it sounds elementary but very clear does it not ?

As for the deleted comment(s), even though this is my blog , I informed the person(s) concerned that I was going to delete it and why. They know they are free to repost it if they wish .

Adam said...

Suliman, (whether I share your opinions or not is really beside the point),

we are all here at the hospitality of our gentle hostess Highlander. However: receiving hospitality, and abusing hospitality, are two different things. Imagine somebody being kindly invited to a party, with lots of nice foods and drink on a huge buffet. Would it not be rather impolite for that person to eat and drink excessive amounts of everything, beyond your his hunger and thirst, just because it is all free?

Maya M said...

Suliman, because this is Highlander's blog and she lives in Libya, I think that a little caution would harm nobody. You never know who is reading. Do you know e.g. the story described at http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=17180?
I wish to say that you (and others) are always welcome to put such comments on my blog and move the discussion there. My last post happens to be about Libya, but you can put comments on any post, no matter how irrelevant.

Adam said...

Thank you Maya! This is a rare moment in history where I agree with you 100 %. All bloggers take note.

programmer craig said...

Suliman, I don't really see what there is in Highlander's post that made you angry. I really don't see any political statement in that. Nor do I see the invititation to begin a political discourse on Libya in there. Just a simple observation that it's a holiday, and that Highlander enojoys military parades :)

Highlander said...

The original is in for those interested.

Hi Adam , Maya and Programmer_Craig, thank you for your support and friendship regardless of our disagreements about many topics :)PS Maya thanks for the offer.

Suliman said...

First a clarification: The above post by Highlander is now in its third generation, as the machinations continue...


Highlander:

Of course this is your blog, and of course, you can do with it what you wish. That much is self evident. But, if you open the blog to the public and invite comments, then you are going to get comments, not only on the in/consistency and in/validity of your views, but also on the in/consistencies and un/even handedness of your actions. I stand behind my statement that on this occasion, you felt a need to depart from your pattern. What you said above simply means that you felt a need to clarify or remove some ambiguity. There is hardly any ambiguity in calling September 1st "Libya Day." And frankly, this is not the first time you did that. The last time was around July 4th, when you drew a parallel between the significance of July 4th to the US and September 1st to Libya. That's a far cry from a valid comparison, the discrepancy measured in centuries of evidence. In any case, the need for clarification never--to my knowledge-- seemed strong enough to cause you to delete a post altogether, thereby forcing all comments on it to be out of context. There are lots of examples where you update, elaborate, explain and re-explain, but not delete. Again, this is not questioning your ownership of the blog or your right to manipulate it to your desire, it is simply pointing out the inconsistency. And as for language and ordinal numbers, I'd say the issue hardly has anything to do with language. I'll tell you what a colleague of mine says to comfort our international students and visitors, "Don't worry, everybody in the world speaks broken English!" I agree completely! And yes, indeed, you told me privately and you posted here that I am welcome to repost my comment. Double thanks for that, once for giving me the opportunity and again for giving me something to point out to Adam.


Adam:

I normally don't interact with other readers because, according to my etiquette a blog is a personal outlet, and a one-to-many channel of interaction, not an equal-opportunity discussion forum. In this case, I thought I'd better respond lest we have an explosion of chivalrous pedantics.

Just to be clear, we are here because this is a public blog, we want to be here, and the blog owner does not mind our being here. Our hostess, as you say, is interacting with the public. She is certainly free but not expected to single anyone out with irrational favor or disfavor. The blog was open before you and I arrived, and I bet it will stay open if we both disappeared. I don't say this to be flippant, nor to justify for anyone, myself included, to be rude to the blog owner, not by any means. I say it simply to put things as they are, without the various rhetorical embellishments and overtones.

I must say, Adam, your metaphor is completely lost on me. I fail to see the basis for your pedantics, and I am not quite certain you have all the facts to begin with. But, in any case, on what basis do you insinuate that I am being impolite and abusing the hospitality of the hostess? Why, because I commented on a post? Do you see me commenting more frequently than others here, or more volumenously? I'd say not. Is it because I originally commented on one post under another? That is not really so unusual or so impolite. In fact, Highlander did the same thing on our blog just a few days ago, and there was nothing inappropriate about it! That happened because of technical reasons. And my first statemet in the "misplaced comment" was that "It looks like you [HL] forgot to enable the comments"; i.e., that there might have been a "technical" reason. Well, whatever your sense of politeness is, I hope you are not implying that I should not have reposted my comment once it got deleted. The hostess told me privately and publicly that I am welcome to repost the thing in the appropriate place, and I only reposted it after her approval and placed it in the proper context. So, I ask in your chosen culinary metaphor, albeit in a different flavor: What's your beef, buddy? Or, as we say in Libya, "Who stepped on your tail?" There is hardly anything more impolite than assuming the responsibility of others when they are demonstrably capable of handling that themselves, and in fact just did exactly that before you declared Jihad. In short, when the concerned party approves explicitly, then it is really nobody's business to veto, circumvent or supercede that approval, and the situation is even worse if such "valiant" intervention is so heavily laden with gender-insensitive symbolism. You are free to rise to the aid of your imagined damsel in distress, but, please don't soil my shoulders in the process.



Maya:

First of all, thanks for the invitation and thanks for speaking to me directly and in very clear, respectful, non-condescending terms. Yes, I am well aware of the limitations of people who live under the authority of the Libyan dictatorship, at least those who have not "deserted" that prison-state. I certainly have no intention of creating trouble for Highlander or anyone else, and I stand to gain nothing from it. I never put words in anyone's mouth, my words are my own not Highlander's and not anyone else's. But, as has been pointed out, Highlander often echoes the Libyan party line, which is hardly cause for concern. I would also add that the attitude of taking things at face value is exactly consistent with the strategy of the ruling regime. Comparing July 4th to Septemper 1st, presenting material from al-Jamahiriya dirt rag on the same footing as BBC, all of these fall in the category of spinning a superficial parity. But in this case in particular, I could not see how she would get in trouble for calling September 1st "Libya Day." That is also entirely consistent with the propaganda of the ruling regime. On the contrary, her standing up to a Libyan "deserter" in her language, also called "stray dog" in the official regime language, can only be a credit to her not a liability. I'm sorry, but I fail to see your logic on this one.

And by the way, RSF has other examples perhaps closer to home than the one you cited. Here, take a look at the case of Dhaif Ghazal, an (ex-greeny) Libyan journalist who was tortured and killed last year after threatening to expose corruption.

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=14012

That's one recent example. Libyans also hold a world record in this area. The longest imprisonment of a journalist anywhere in the world was imposed on Mr. Ali as-Senousi ad-Darrat: 28 years in prison (1973-2001) with no trial and no charges. You can also find his story in the RSF site. That will give you an idea of the extent and justification of my objection to calling the birthday of these and other gross atrocities, Libya Day. I don't deny anyone the right to do that, but on any level field I will stand to differ. If the field is not level, then I have no interest.

Thanks again for the invite, Maya. I noticed that elswhere on this blog, Brother Craig is attributing undefined positions to me on the case of HIV infected children, even though I never made my position known publicly anywhere! Some people also claim to receive wireless messages from all-knowing entities. Sendin such messages is one thing, widely known as prayer, but receiving them is called schizophrenia, I believe. I just might surprise you and post my views on the HIV case on your blog!

Last but not least, Brother Craig: As we say in Arabic, Khitamoha Misk!

You posted your comment between the second and third revisions by Highlander. Never mind that I said clearly my comments were in response to a post that got deleted. That's not important to you, right? I just love people like you who never let the quality of data interfer with their judgement. But, let me end my participation on a positive note. You said three times, "I really don't see," and my reply is I agree, I agree, I agree! Please chalk that one up in the annals of the Hard to Believe.

If anyone would like to reply to me, please use e-mail if you care for me to see it.

Peace.

Highlander said...

Suliman, you say "First a clarification: The above post by Highlander is now in its third generation, as the machinations continue..."

You make it sound like a cliffhanger on TV...

Now for my objections:
(1)reference to desertion are uncalled for as they have been clarified in another post and left there for all to see.
(2) "I would also add that the attitude of taking things at face value is exactly consistent with the strategy of the ruling regime. Comparing July 4th to Septemper 1st, presenting material from al-Jamahiriya dirt rag on the same footing as BBC, all of these fall in the category of spinning a superficial parity"

Have you ever heard of satirical humour of compare and contrast ? I guess not :(

There is clearly a large gap in communication somewhere, I hope it can be remedied to with time.No offense meant.

You have the original which many had read, and which all can re-read. You have the version which was re-written mainly for your sake so as to cater to your offended feelings as there seems to have been some kind of mis-understanding. You got the chance to share your input as you wished- note with no censorship.

Therefore the loop is complete.

You are still welcome on this blog.Thanks for your participation and I wish you all the best.

Highlander said...

Suliman, you say "First a clarification: The above post by Highlander is now in its third generation, as the machinations continue..."

You make it sound like a cliffhanger on TV...

Now for my objections:
(1)reference to desertion are uncalled for as they have been clarified in another post and left there for all to see.
(2) "I would also add that the attitude of taking things at face value is exactly consistent with the strategy of the ruling regime. Comparing July 4th to Septemper 1st, presenting material from al-Jamahiriya dirt rag on the same footing as BBC, all of these fall in the category of spinning a superficial parity"

Have you ever heard of satirical humour of compare and contrast ? I guess not :(

There is clearly a large gap in communication somewhere, I hope it can be remedied to with time.No offense meant.

You have the original which many had read, and which all can re-read. You have the version which was re-written mainly for your sake so as to cater to your offended feelings as there seems to have been some kind of mis-understanding. You got the chance to share your input as you wished- note with no censorship.

Therefore the loop is complete.

You are still welcome on this blog.Thanks for your participation and I wish you all the best.

UmmAminah said...

The Green Book is a veritable noble work of art.

Bejn il-kliem u l-fatti.

That's a Maltese proverb I refuse to translate on grounds that it might incriminate me

programmer craig said...

Suliman,

I noticed that elswhere on this blog, Brother Craig is attributing undefined positions to me on the case of HIV infected children, even though I never made my position known publicly anywhere

I think I said "Hanu and Suliman" not specifiically YOU, Suliman. You're right - I haven't ever seen you voice your opinions on this issue. But I have seen Hanu address the issue. You and she both seem to attack all parties in a discussion rather than focussing your anger on a certain point. In the case of the Bulgarian nurses, I seem to recall Hanu spending a great deal of time attacking the US for spending so much time and money fighting wars and doing other things and not enough time and money doing anything about HIV/AIDS in Africa.

Which is just fine, Suliman, but in context, most people (including me) don't read into such comments a clear position re: the unjust treatment of those nurses.

Likewise, when we were discussing Islam and Christianity, it seemed to me that you were making offensive comments about Christianity in order to defend (or discredit?) Islam. Whatever your motivations for making the statements you made, I was personally offended by them. You basically said Christianity was a false religion, and that Christian scripture was forged. Whether you believe that or not, or whether muslims in general believe that or not, that's the kind of statement that stirs religious hatred, not religious tolerance.

As I said in my comment (which you seem to think was a misguided attampt at chivalry) I don't agree with the things you and Hanu say anymore than I agree with what Highlander says. In fact, I often agree with what Highlander says more. Specifically on religious matters, she seems far more open-minded and tolerant than you are.

I don't have anything against you, Suliman. I just think you need to have in mind what it is you want to accomplish when you make statements, and how you can best serve that purpose. Attacking all parties or all positions in a discussion will just muddy the waters.

Adam said...

After all has been said, may I please quietly suggest a humble little diversion?

Libyan Warrior( KING OF AL-ANDLUS) said...

military parades in LibyA rock!!!!!

I was in Libya during revolution day last year it was a blast. I had so much fun. I missed it this year but Inshallah next year I want to come.


Suliman:)
Well Suliman u should be shot, stabbed, beheaded, and left in the desert so that the animals can feed on your Traitoress carcass. Fuck u Mother FUCKER!!!!! u r a fucking coward and a worthless peice of human garbage. The Revolution was the greatest thing that ever happened in Libya, u are a fucking agent of the west and u wish to install a puppet government to spread your perverse ideas and steal our oil. God Bless Gaddafi, he is a true Libyan, he saw what sell out fuckers like u where doing, and he got up, and said, I am going to fix this country, i am not going to let these western imperialist fucks take our shit. Fuck No. Know as far as your pussy ass statements go, i am glad highlander took them off she was nice enough to hide your stupidity, to bad you insisted on bring it back out agaim.

1. I believe it is a great dishonor to celebrate the armed takeover of power by a confessed, condemned criminal dictotorship.


Fuck u u colonial Pig. the only criminal dictarorship is the Bush administrations. It is a fucking honour to celebrate a great man rising to power to kick out money hungry euro pigs who are stealing our wealth and killing us by the millions out of the country. Go to America and hide with your tale between your legts you bitch.


"of his disarmament and surrender to the US?"

Surrender to the US u must be out your fucking mind. Suilman, u fucking pig, U should be labeled a traitor, and all children should be given your picture in Libyan schools to spit on, u fucking pig.


As a Libyan, I find it personally offensive for anyone to link Libya's name to the work of a bunch of criminals

well Suliman u r not a Libyan, and the only person who is hiding is u mother fucker, and the only criminal is Bush.

Burn in hell turncoat.

programmer craig said...

Spoeaking of treason... you sure you're an Ameican Citizen, LibyanWarrior? Shouldn't you rectify that little misunderstanding before somebody rectifies it for you? Citizenship can be revoked, you know :P

Kinda... what's the word? Ironic? ... that you call Suliman a traitor. At least he doesn't reside in the country he attacks, eh? Which puts hima cut above you, doesn't it,
wormy boy? If the US was like Libya, you and your whole family would be in prison for what you just said :D

Libyan Warrior( KING OF AL-ANDLUS) said...

PC The Racist White Anglo pig. America is not a White Aryan nation my friend, it is a lovley hispanic nation. and the majority of Hispanics belive in the leftist revolution, the majority of Hispanics hate u anglo pigs and want u to go home. I am not a traitor quite the opposite i love America and its Hispanic owners, why do u asume that speaking against the white European Criminals who have stolen America is a act of trechory. Quite the ciontray I love this country and the people who belong to it, and I wanna see them get their land, America back. Why dont u go back to Europe Honkey. Stop Oppressing us Honkey, give the Land Back to The Natives honkey, stop your racism honkey. America is a Nation of colored people honkey. it does not belong to u and george Bush honkey, go back to England honkey, go back their and by a nice kilt and get fucked in the ass by your fellow English brothern u homo.

NO MORE WHITE OPPRESSION. LONG LIVE COLORED PEOPLE.

programmer craig said...

PC The Racist White Anglo pig.

Ah yes, thanks for the input, mister all non-berbers need to be sodomized in prison :P

(see? I recall all the stupid shit you say, even when you do not :D )

America is not a White Aryan nation my friend

Nor would I ever claim it to be, since in my view such a thing is not poissible. The Aryans were (are) asians, or at best, indo-iranians. You are aware that the word "aryan" and "iran" are two different spellings of the same word, are you not? Judging by the reading list you published, you should be :P

it is a lovley hispanic nation.

No, not yet. Hispanics only form some 23% of the population at present. It will be sometime in the next generation or two, though.

and the majority of Hispanics belive in the leftist revolution

They do!? How is it that this has escaped my attention, while I'm living here in the most predominantly hispanic region in the United States, Southern California!?

Or are you talking about all the Cubans where you live? The ones who vote strongly Republican?

the majority of Hispanics hate u anglo pigs and want u to go home.

I bet they hate you a lot more than they hate me! Why don't you fly out here some time and we'll head down to El Sereno and see which one of us fares better? :D

I skipped the rest of your hatemongering. Such discussions can be entertaining when the particpants have some actual knowlegde of the issue, but you are clearly as ignorant about demographics in America as you are about everything else, so why don't you go ask your Mom to tell you a bed time story now and leave the adults to consult with each other in peace? Or perhaps you could try actually READING one of the books that's on your shelf for a change, so you could say something that made sense in the future?

Highlander said...

Libyan Warrior

I keep standing by you despite all the outrageous and contradictory things you say because my big ego makes me imagine I know how your mind is working..... With regards to suliman , I understand that you mean well, but I do know he is not a traitor nor a bad person, and I'm sure you do understand where his anger comes from and why and he is entitled to his own opinion same as you and we all respect that. Please do not call him names.

You cannot judge people by what you see about them on the internet it can be very misleading and it is unfair to them. Please debate him on his arguments -if he has any- and not on what YOU think he is and don't worry about me. OK ? I'm also sure you love the US just as much as Libya. Go Show the skeptics that my friend ..